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[Music]

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greetings

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and salutations friends i want to

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welcome everyone

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to what should be an exciting evening

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tonight is a truth seeker special event

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we

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time ago uh with author lecture

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researcher kalkorf

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um and i thought it only fair

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and uh and right really to hear the

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other side of the story

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during his appearance mr korff made a

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statements uh concerning our tonight's

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guest which

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is dr kevin randle uh author

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lecturer researcher uh

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who has written uh several books on

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roswell

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i've heard it said that he's written

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more books about ufos than anyone

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i'm not quite sure we're going to try to

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drill down on that might be him it might

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be nick redford

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is catching up to him though uh and you

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know he has his own

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very i think well researched take on

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what it is that actually crash

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landed in roswell in 1947. so

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friends without further ado i'm going to

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welcome tonight's uh very special guest

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dr kevin randall how you doing mr

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randall

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i'm doing fine oh you told me to call

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you kevin

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actually yes i did last time you called

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me colonel but that's a whole other

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argument

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yeah absolutely okay so i have an

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entire list of questions right but

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i thought it would be best if we just

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talk about the elephant in the room

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first because it makes me a little

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uncomfortable

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another guest came on my show and he

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said that

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your phd is fake that you're not a real

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doctor

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uh and i've heard him post this stuff so

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i just want you to know

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you know we try to bring people the

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truth here i looked into your

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educational

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background and found it to be valid two

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of your degrees came from

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uh online learning universities but

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they're actually accredited by the

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united states

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and real degrees that they award people

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and

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these accredited degrees would be

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accepted for a government job

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a corporate job or any other uh

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employment situation as a real and valid

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degree

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so i'm not sure what his b for issue

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with the

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with you is over these degrees but can

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you tell us a little bit about your

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education

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just to clear the air as far as that

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goes

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well certainly um my undergraduate

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degree is from the university of iowa

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a fully accredited university you can

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find it

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in a list of colleges anywhere you want

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to look

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i went to the american military

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university which

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i think caters to military personnel and

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and as a military officer to move into

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field rank you almost have to have a

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master's degree and i

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pursued a master's degree with the

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american military university which is a

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fully accredited university

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and is now in a con conglomerate of

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different universities and it's

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fully accredited and it's acceptable to

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the united states government the united

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states army

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i also and literally tens of thousands

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of military officers have gone there

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gotten advanced degrees master's degrees

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that's what i found when i

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looked into them so absolutely correct i

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don't know what the issue with that one

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is either if the government accepts it

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and the military accepts it

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you know and and i found it was really

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the hardest degree that i had gotten

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given the work that you had we had

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proctored examinations for example you

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had to

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come up with somebody in the local area

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since it's distance learning

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who they would accept as a proctor i had

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a former

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principal from one of the elementary

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schools here in the here in the city

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as the proctor and they found him

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completely acceptable to take the

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take the test did all the work um

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california course university

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is another online school and when i was

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looking for degree programs i went

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through a lot of different

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uh um books and

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websites looking for um something that

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would work for me

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and i found one that if you uh you had

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to be fluent in two foreign languages

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and things like that i mean there are

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degrees

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clearly getting an online degree from an

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accredited

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going to stanford or mit and getting a

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phd from them i mean there's very

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prestigious degrees

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isn't it a good option for a lot of

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people it's it's half the cost it's

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or less you know it's more convenient

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and

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to um

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the the bricks and mortar campus you can

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continue in your work whatever you

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happen to be doing and get the degree

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that way

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i did have to write a dissertation i did

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have to go

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to the university to defend that

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dissertation

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which i did and when you to get a

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master's degree even at an online

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accredited university you'd have to

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write a master's thesis as well right

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well at the american military university

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they had a you had a massive

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final examination you had to take okay

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and they sent you

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they sent you we'll be looking at this

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area in this area in this area

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uh study for it in these areas but they

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didn't ask you questions in all the

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areas so you had to

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study everything so that you would be

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prepared yeah that sounds like a

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nightmare

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yeah that one that was so i just i

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listen i don't understand what the

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controversy or the problem is

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you know i have never suggested that it

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was any kind of a prestigious degree i

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mean it's a

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legitimate phd it's accepted it was

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accepted by the united states army i

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think when i was in iraq there were two

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of us

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in the entire brigade that had phds the

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other one was the brigade commander

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and just so unclear if you get a phd it

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comes

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with the title doctor right so

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absolutely

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it's not no problem with calling you dr

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kevin randall then that's what he had an

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issue with that as well like you're not

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a real doctor

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i mean maybe not a medical doctor but

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you have a phd therefore it comes with

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getting a phd comes with the title

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doctor you could get a piece

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only actually or theology and you're

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still a doctor you're a doctor of

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theology or a doctor of philosophy not a

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medical doctor

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or or a doctor of education jill biden

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yeah the big kind of about her degree

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being a doctor

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here we have a comment from the live

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chat cal trashed his degree

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in in way to what trash is credibility

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don't know feels low blow cal

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so you know i think most people would

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agree with me i'm sorry i disagree with

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uh mr corp i don't care if it's an

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online

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if it's credited and the government

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accepts it it's a real degree you may

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not

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like that he didn't go to a brick and

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mortar you know

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actual physical school but thousands of

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people do this

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there's so many people that do this now

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you know i'm thinking about doing it

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well the thing i think really he had he

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had

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uh attacked me from another point of

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view and somebody had written to me and

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says cal says you didn't get the degrees

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we'd like to check with the university

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we checked and they said you have to

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sign this document so that we can

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release your

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uh information to them about your your

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degree and i said sure i have no problem

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with that

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and the thing i find interesting is when

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you challenge somebody who is

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fudging their resume they will say i'm

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not going to dignify that with a

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response

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i always respond yeah you've got a good

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answer and yeah

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you you you know and you also will allow

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people to get

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copies of whatever they want including

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your military records which i find

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refreshing because there's too many

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people in ufo land claiming military

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service that don't

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it doesn't add up you know well i know

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when you check you find out they were

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never even in the air force or something

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you know

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or the army yes yes and you've got

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extensive military experience in fact

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you went back you enlisted again right

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to go

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into the iraq wars well i i

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enlisted in the army right out of high

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school because they had a program

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that took high school graduates and and

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sent them to flight school helicopter

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flight school

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and so that's what i did and uh 13

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months after signing up for the army i

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found my butt in vietnam

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and and for those who are interested you

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know i i tell some stories like i blew a

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blew it up on a land mine and people you

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know look at me askance

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if you go i i've got a blog called it's

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www vietnam

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dot vietnam ground zero all one word and

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what i'm doing is putting up

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with the um information about my my

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experiences in vietnam

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because we just to to backtrack i'm

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getting ahead of myself

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um bob cornett and i wanted to be

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writers when we were in college we were

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in college together one of the things we

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want to do is write science fiction

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books

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and we would go to the science fiction

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conventions to meet editors and we met

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an agent there and she signs up and she

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called me at work one day

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about the green berets of vietnam i said

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yeah sure

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she'd called says can you write books

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about nurses and hospitals i would have

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said yeah sure i can do that

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yeah what do you need right yeah

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absolutely and so bob and i wrote some

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30 books

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called vietnam ground zero well an

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english company is reissuing the books

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uh i think the first seven have just

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come out since july

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and so i put up a blog to kind of

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promote that and i thought well what

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00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:43,120
i'll do is i'll just put up my vietnam

287
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:44,560
experiences

288
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,600
on this blog so that they can people can

289
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:48,959
see that yes i am a real

290
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:51,040
honest to god vietnam veteran so when i

291
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,040
say i blow up a helicopter on uh

292
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:55,279
on the land mine if you go to the blog

293
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:56,639
there's a story about i blew a

294
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:57,360
helicopter

295
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,279
you scroll on down and there's a link to

296
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,519
the 187th assault helicopter company it

297
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:05,440
takes you to their website

298
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:08,880
and you the unit history you go to 69

299
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:11,360
which is 1969 and i hesitate to say that

300
00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:12,320
because that

301
00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:14,959
gives away my advanced age but you

302
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,360
scroll

303
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:17,680
on down to may 16th and it says chief

304
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,279
warrant officer kevin randle does this

305
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:21,600
thing and i think it's aircraft 617

306
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,959
finds the only mine block rice paddy in

307
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:27,120
south vietnam and then it describes some

308
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,079
of the

309
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:30,000
damage done to the helicopter so you can

310
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,880
now go to a source that i do not control

311
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,480
and see that i did in fact blow up a

312
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:36,079
helicopter on a landmine the only thing

313
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:37,600
inaccurate about that it says chief

314
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:39,040
warrant officer kevin randall

315
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,560
at the time i did it i wasn't a chief

316
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,160
warrant officer i didn't get that

317
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:44,399
promotion for another two months but

318
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,120
um so i've done those sorts of things

319
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,839
i've been very scrupulous on talking

320
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,079
about my educational background and my

321
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:57,040
um military background because i know

322
00:13:00,790 --> 00:12:58,560
people check these things out and i know

323
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:00,800
stan friedman checked me out one time

324
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,480
and he never said another word about it

325
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,000
because

326
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:06,000
he got the documentation and i was who i

327
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,279
said i was

328
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:09,440
i have been i have been a ward officer

329
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:10,560
in the army i was spent

330
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,399
a year in vietnam i spent four years on

331
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:14,079
active duty with the army i got out of

332
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,680
the army i went to college

333
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,440
took air force rotc because as a warrant

334
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,200
officer you could do that

335
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:21,120
and and was commissioned in the air

336
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,959
force spent some time in the air force i

337
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:24,720
worked as a general's aide

338
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:28,240
for like well his aid was on

339
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:32,079
on on on leave and the general liked me

340
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,880
because

341
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,959
he had been a b-17 pilot in world war ii

342
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:36,560
and i've been an army helicopter pilot

343
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,720
in vietnam so he

344
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,880
he when i was ready to leave that unit

345
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:42,560
he said well you know on the reserve

346
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:45,920
side we've got um two slots available as

347
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:46,639
my aide

348
00:13:51,189 --> 00:13:49,680
and as the intelligence officer well i

349
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:51,199
stupidly picked the wrong one and went

350
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,639
for intelligence officer if i'd been

351
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:54,079
smart knew what i was doing i would have

352
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,720
picked

353
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,160
uh general's aide because you learn a

354
00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:58,800
lot more that way

355
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,800
so i know stan was upset because i was

356
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:02,079
talking about being an intelligence

357
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:04,000
officer i was serving on on

358
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,440
in the reserve and i've served on active

359
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,279
duty as an intelligence officer

360
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:09,760
and i'm sure he checked that out but he

361
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:10,480
never said i

362
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,480
said a word about it and maybe it's the

363
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:14,480
number of fraudsters out there that

364
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:15,680
claim these things

365
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,160
you know and and meanwhile here's a real

366
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:20,079
and genuine military officer

367
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:22,000
that really was an intelligence officer

368
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,760
that really has these educational

369
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,440
credentials and it's kind of hard for

370
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:27,360
some people to believe that there's

371
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:30,399
there is genuine people you know

372
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:31,839
i think part of the problem was when i

373
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:34,720
got back from iraq

374
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:36,240
the man whose name i do not want to

375
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,440
speak cal um

376
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:41,839
sent me this letter that or this email

377
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:43,440
about you know we were colleagues and

378
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:43,839
brother

379
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:46,480
officers and blah blah blah and he's in

380
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:47,040
some

381
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:50,639
mythical organization and said he was a

382
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:52,240
captain and i was a captain and all of

383
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:53,360
this stuff and i'm thinking i don't want

384
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,639
to talk to you

385
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,560
and i think that kind of annoyed him and

386
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:58,480
then i got promoted to major

387
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:00,079
so suddenly he was no longer captain he

388
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,000
got promoted to colonel

389
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:05,120
so i've not heard i've not heard that

390
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,000
kind of stuff

391
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,639
so yeah and the funny thing the funny

392
00:15:11,829 --> 00:15:10,000
thing was you know he talks about

393
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,839
well you know my organization is super

394
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,120
secret i'm thinking then why are you

395
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:14,880
blabbing about it all over the internet

396
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,279
you

397
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:17,839
boob and then the second thing that got

398
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,560
to me

399
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:20,079
well you couldn't find any reference to

400
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,680
it on the internet well if you want to

401
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:23,279
look up the organization from which i've

402
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:24,160
been commissioned

403
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:25,760
the united states army you can find it

404
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,079
all over the internet

405
00:15:31,509 --> 00:15:29,920
but you can find documentation there's a

406
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:31,519
picture well again on my blog

407
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,240
um the vietnam ground zero blog there's

408
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:36,160
a picture of me in flight school

409
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:37,600
you know we're all the whole platoon's

410
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:39,199
sitting there and um

411
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,560
i'm in the second row and i think i'm

412
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,800
second from the left and so i put that

413
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:44,240
picture up on the blog it's not a very

414
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,440
good picture and you'll be hard to

415
00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,279
identify me but you can see it there's a

416
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,839
picture of me up in the

417
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:52,320
dress addressed in my jungle fatigues in

418
00:15:55,590 --> 00:15:53,519
vietnam with

419
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,600
complete with my 38 caliber revolver

420
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,920
with the p symbol on it so

421
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,240
that's that's pretty funny and you know

422
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:01,839
until i heard him say something like

423
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:03,600
this i've never heard anybody

424
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,240
i've heard you on so many different you

425
00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:08,320
know podcasts and documentaries and

426
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:10,000
television shows and i've never heard

427
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:11,199
anybody say anything

428
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,959
negative about your education or about

429
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,279
your military service being suspect so

430
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,800
i think we've covered that and we can

431
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:18,959
move on to roswell

432
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:21,680
i guess my first the first big question

433
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:22,720
that i had is

434
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:26,320
why uh first why the interest in ufos in

435
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,800
general but then why did you become

436
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,800
what i would call laser focused on

437
00:16:34,829 --> 00:16:32,240
investigating roswell

438
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,839
as one of the early civilian

439
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,320
investigators

440
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:39,120
the interest comes from my mother she

441
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,680
was a big science fiction fan

442
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:43,360
and science fiction is about alien

443
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:45,440
visitation and alien civilizations and

444
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:46,959
space travel and all of that and when

445
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,480
you start talking about ufos you're

446
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:50,560
talking about alien civilizations

447
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,240
uh space travel and all that sort of

448
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:54,399
thing so it just kind of flowed together

449
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:55,839
in fact one of the first movies i ever

450
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:57,199
saw my mother took me to was earth

451
00:17:01,990 --> 00:16:59,199
versus the flying saucers

452
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:02,000
and that kind of sparked the interest so

453
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:02,959
it carried on

454
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:06,000
from from that point on

455
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,839
i was at a science fiction convention in

456
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:10,000
milwaukee wisconsin

457
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:12,240
and there were three of us that were

458
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:13,439
going to

459
00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:15,919
debate ufos with two guys from the

460
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:18,160
center for ufo studies i was on the con

461
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:19,039
side

462
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:21,039
and don schmidt and another fellow was

463
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:22,559
coming up from the center of ufo studies

464
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,360
and we were going to

465
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:25,919
debate it on my side was frederick pohl

466
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:27,760
and i think george rr martin was the

467
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,840
third guy before he became george r.r

468
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:31,039
martin

469
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:34,160
and game of thrones wow interesting

470
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:35,679
well i actually was in his house in

471
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:37,600
dubuque once before he was george rr

472
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:40,080
martin when he lived in dubuque iowa

473
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,840
but um when don showed up there wasn't

474
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:45,200
the second guy couldn't make it i

475
00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:46,480
thought well this is not fair three to

476
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:47,919
one and it's a debate so i switched

477
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:48,960
sides

478
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,160
because you can't i mean in the debate

479
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:53,760
how that happened so there's how you

480
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:55,760
became friends with uh mr schmidt i

481
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:56,320
suppose

482
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:58,000
absolutely absolutely and i was putting

483
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,520
together a book on

484
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:01,120
it was based on the magazine articles i

485
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:03,120
had written in the 1970s called the ufo

486
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:04,320
case book and there was a bunch of stuff

487
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,440
there and i interviewed a couple of

488
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:07,440
people who were in the ufo field

489
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:10,880
to flesh out the book so um

490
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,880
don got a hold of me and he said that

491
00:18:15,669 --> 00:18:14,240
they were going to investigate the

492
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:15,679
roswell case i didn't know that much

493
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:16,960
about it i knew a little bit about it

494
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,720
but i didn't know much about it

495
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:21,039
and they wanted the center beautiful

496
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:22,559
studies thought i would be a good

497
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,160
person to partner with because of my

498
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:26,080
military background and a lot of the

499
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:27,360
witnesses would have a military

500
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,960
background and i would understand things

501
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:31,039
that the civilians may not understand

502
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,640
and and one of the best examples that i

503
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:34,320
think in the um the

504
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:36,480
roswell incident bill moore and charles

505
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,440
burlitz

506
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,600
they say that colonel dubose was general

507
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:41,039
raymie's aide

508
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,880
and i said no brigadier general doesn't

509
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,960
have a full colonel as an aide

510
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,880
and it found out that dubose was

511
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,320
actually the chief of staff a much more

512
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,760
important position than

513
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:52,000
than the aid a four-star general like

514
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,280
the chief of staff may have a full

515
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:55,200
kernel for an aide but a brigadier

516
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:56,400
general

517
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:58,400
no not so much but i mean that's the

518
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:00,160
kind of thing i would know that that

519
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:02,240
the civilians wouldn't know so we we

520
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:04,240
trotted on down to roswell and both of

521
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,440
us kind of thought that

522
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:07,120
we would we would solve this thing in a

523
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:10,400
matter of hours

524
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:12,080
i could imagine though yeah you think

525
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:13,520
you're going to get you're going to get

526
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,559
to it right

527
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:16,160
yeah we got that we we're going to go

528
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:17,600
down we're going to talk to frank joyce

529
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:18,160
who was

530
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:21,679
the reporter at kgfl in 1947 we got to

531
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,120
albuquerque he lived in albuquerque at

532
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:25,200
the time um and he

533
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,320
didn't want to meet with us because he

534
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,799
was ill i thought well that figures

535
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,559
then we went to a meeting with a group

536
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,480
of

537
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:34,160
new age people i think is the best way

538
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:35,840
to put it they were way out there way in

539
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:41,750
well this is absolutely useless and then

540
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,200
we we went down to uh

541
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,559
went down to roswell we were going to

542
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:46,080
meet cliff stone and he didn't want to

543
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:47,679
meet us at his house and i don't know

544
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:48,720
why

545
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:51,200
because his street address is in the

546
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:52,880
telephone book

547
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,400
but he met us at the burger king and he

548
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:56,000
shows up in uniform and i thought well

549
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,600
that's kind of weird

550
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,600
but then we go to his house we get to

551
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:01,440
his house and uh we're in in the living

552
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:02,400
room and he said well just a minute i

553
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:03,679
have to go outside and he goes outside

554
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:04,640
he comes back and he's carrying a

555
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:06,400
document with a top secret cover sheet

556
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:07,200
on it

557
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:09,120
and i'm thinking to myself if you've got

558
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:10,880
a top secret government

559
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:13,200
top secret document there you're going

560
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:14,480
to jail

561
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:16,080
uh because you're not authorized to be

562
00:20:19,270 --> 00:20:17,600
transporting them in your car and

563
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:19,280
leaving them in there and you have to

564
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:20,960
keep them

565
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,000
just a regular safe they got to be in a

566
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:28,000
vault top secret documents

567
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,760
so i know he was a little bit weird but

568
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,080
he did put us on to a couple of people

569
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,039
like um ralph hike who who came who who

570
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:37,360
provided a a number of interesting leads

571
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,919
for us

572
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,080
the final day we go to meet bill brazel

573
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,480
i mean here's the guy bill brazel

574
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:45,360
and um he meets us in cairo new mexico

575
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,000
we

576
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:49,120
meet him at the outpost um

577
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,880
cafe or bar and grill or whatever the

578
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:52,159
hell it was

579
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:54,640
um and and then there's pictures of of

580
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,280
don

581
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:57,120
and bill brazel and me standing in front

582
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,280
of the outpost by the way

583
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:01,440
and brazil had said to his wife and he

584
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,799
told us this later

585
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:04,320
that if he liked us he would help us and

586
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:05,760
if he didn't like us he'd just blow us

587
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:07,200
off well he apparently liked us because

588
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,559
he was going to help us so we spent

589
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:10,000
an hour and a half with him interviewing

590
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:13,120
him and

591
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,960
as we were going back to albuquerque i

592
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:16,480
said to don

593
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:19,760
you know we've got to come back

594
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,360
you know everything had blown up except

595
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:22,880
for bill brazel and bill brazile comes

596
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:23,280
across

597
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,799
as very credible and he's the guy that

598
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,960
handled debris his father was the guy

599
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,159
that found it i mean

600
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,480
we're this is the guy we want to talk to

601
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:32,000
and we need to come back

602
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:35,120
interestingly we published um great

603
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:36,400
chunks of that interview

604
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:39,679
transcript of that interview in our book

605
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:44,480
um the ufo crash at roswell

606
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:46,799
stan friedman without credit or

607
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,600
attribution

608
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:50,159
published it in his book as well yeah

609
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,990
i think wasn't it can can i ask you

610
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:57,280
another question that i think is

611
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:58,240
important

612
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:01,360
it wasn't very a lot more competitive

613
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,320
between

614
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:04,480
the people that were researching and

615
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:06,559
writing the roswell books because we've

616
00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:07,280
got

617
00:22:10,950 --> 00:22:08,960
i've heard a lot of stories it seems

618
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:10,960
like you guys were going at it trying to

619
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:13,120
get to it and get your books

620
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:15,919
on the market before this guy's and yeah

621
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:16,240
no

622
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,000
i think what happened we had the

623
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:20,480
roswell's came out in 1980

624
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,000
nothing else had been done stan got

625
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,480
diverted into the mj-12 nonsense

626
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:26,400
so he was chasing that in fact the

627
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,480
center had talked to stan about it

628
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,400
and asked him about additional witnesses

629
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,840
that's those people you need to talk to

630
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:34,000
and he was all on board for it

631
00:22:38,789 --> 00:22:36,400
so as after we got down to albuquerque

632
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,799
it was in february of 1989

633
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,799
and we're driving we're driving back to

634
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:42,320
the airport in albuquerque so we could

635
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:43,440
fly home

636
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:44,720
and i mentioned to don we could do a

637
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,320
book on this but we've got to come back

638
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:48,240
because there's more information to be

639
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,120
got

640
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:51,600
and so we'd come back a number of times

641
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,240
and then

642
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:54,640
um unsolved mysteries did their thing in

643
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:56,960
september of 1989 about roswell and i

644
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:58,480
was one of the participants in that as

645
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:59,200
was yeah and

646
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:01,919
just just so you know mr randall kevin

647
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:03,760
i'm allowed to call you kevin now

648
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,400
the first time i ever saw you was on

649
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,640
1989 unsolved mysteries my father

650
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:10,799
watched every single one and i remember

651
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:12,559
sitting and watching that one with my

652
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:13,600
father so that was

653
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:15,360
that's why i was so happy because the

654
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,640
first time i ever saw you was on

655
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:18,480
unsolved mysteries in 1989

656
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:20,159
watching it with my dad and now you're

657
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:22,000
on my show which is just a little

658
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,679
bit amazing to me let's go one step

659
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,600
further so i'm in iraq

660
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:29,120
and these two sergeants come up to me

661
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:31,520
one day and said do you have a brother

662
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,840
and i said no why he said well we were

663
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:35,520
watching this program

664
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:37,120
and there was a guy with the same last

665
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:39,840
name that looked an awful lot like you

666
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:43,760
talking about ufos and i said

667
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,600
program probably from 10 years ago

668
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:49,840
realized it was me on the program uh

669
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:51,200
that was the first one that i had ever

670
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:53,279
done i've done some i've done

671
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,919
radio programs prior to that and and

672
00:23:59,430 --> 00:23:57,440
things like that but that was the first

673
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:59,440
time i ever appeared on tv and then

674
00:24:03,110 --> 00:24:00,720
later on

675
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:03,120
um after we finished the book there

676
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,080
really wasn't

677
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,400
wasn't a race to get the books out what

678
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:08,080
happened was

679
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,799
uh stan came to dawn of me and what i

680
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:12,240
remember is talking to in the parking

681
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:14,000
lot of this restaurant we must have been

682
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,760
inside at some point but i just remember

683
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:17,520
was talking about and even proposed to

684
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,000
us

685
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:20,400
well you should put my name on your book

686
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:21,679
my name would go third and you should

687
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:23,279
give me a quarter of the money

688
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:26,320
and i'm thinking why what have you done

689
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:29,279
oh no all you have done is throw

690
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:30,159
roadblocks

691
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,840
in front of us as we tried to move

692
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:33,760
through the investigation as we got into

693
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,039
it and we brought him

694
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,799
he got more interested in it because he

695
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:38,240
realized there was a lot to be done

696
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:39,360
there so

697
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,559
um we put out our book

698
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,640
and then he was well mine's going to be

699
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:46,640
a hardback and i'm thinking so

700
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:48,880
a book's a book and then my father said

701
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:50,480
my father says to me one day

702
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:52,080
what are you going to write a real book

703
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:53,440
and i said what do you mean by a real

704
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,559
book and he said one with

705
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,400
you know hardback i'm thinking i thought

706
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,200
i'd been writing real books

707
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:01,200
it's not real unless it's a hardcover

708
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:02,320
okay yeah well

709
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:04,080
then we got the truth about ufo crash at

710
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:05,679
roswell and hardback so there we go we

711
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,840
had a hardback so everybody was happy

712
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,919
i'm pretty sure i have that book and the

713
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:11,360
hardback edition too

714
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:14,159
it's all it's only a joke right over

715
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:14,720
stan

716
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:22,080
bug that um well i think he came out of

717
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:22,320
the

718
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:28,720
didn't have any stories of alien bodies

719
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:31,279
they had jesse marcel they had walter

720
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:32,080
hot

721
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:34,159
they had bill brazel but you know

722
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,600
they're not talking about alien

723
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,880
creatures they're not talking about

724
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:37,919
bodies

725
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:41,120
and then vern maltese i think it was

726
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:44,320
met stan at a lecture he says my uncle

727
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,720
barney barnett saw a crash craft in the

728
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,840
bodies

729
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:49,600
over on the plains of san agustin which

730
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:53,039
is this prehistoric

731
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:56,080
lake it's a dried up lake bed in um in

732
00:26:02,230 --> 00:25:58,960
new mexico just west of socorro

733
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:02,240
and so stan started talking to him and

734
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,400
then

735
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:06,080
either bill moore i think was bill moore

736
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:08,799
called fleck danley which was

737
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:13,200
barnett's boss in 1947 barnett had died

738
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:15,200
before anybody talked to him and so

739
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:16,640
we're getting the story from other

740
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:18,559
people who would talk to him

741
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:20,960
and fleck danley seemed to think that

742
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:22,799
the barney barnett had told him about

743
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,520
seeing the crash flying saucer in 1947

744
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:27,200
i talked to felik danley and i thought

745
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,559
you know i could get him to

746
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,760
to confirm that he was with um

747
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:33,679
crazy horse at the little big horn if i

748
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:35,120
wanted to

749
00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:38,240
wasn't that sharp and and it and it has

750
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:39,279
to do with his age

751
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,279
not not that he was dumb or anything i

752
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,120
mean it was his age i think he was in

753
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:45,120
his 80s when i talked to him

754
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,480
so it just wasn't a reliable source um

755
00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:51,679
uh carl flock and i did a story on

756
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:52,960
barnett

757
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:56,159
um in 2000 what's been 2003 came out in

758
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:58,000
the international ufo reporter where we

759
00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:01,279
we investigated the barnett tale um

760
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:02,960
we found a diary actually i found the

761
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:04,880
diary ruth barnett's

762
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:08,000
niece alice knight somehow i got in

763
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:09,440
touch with her

764
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:10,880
and was talking to her about what she

765
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:13,120
remembered barney had told them

766
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:14,640
and she called me one day and said you

767
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:17,840
know i found a diary kept by ruth

768
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:20,159
uh for 1947. apparently it's only a year

769
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,440
that she did that

770
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:23,120
and it was one of those daily reminder

771
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,559
books and she kept it

772
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:26,000
religiously through the whole year of

773
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,360
1947. so we're going through this thing

774
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:31,679
there's nothing there i take it to

775
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:32,640
albuquerque

776
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:33,840
she loans it to me i take it to

777
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,240
albuquerque and meet stan

778
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,840
and don schmidt at a um copying center

779
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:41,840
and i walk in the door and stan doesn't

780
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:43,120
say hello or anything he says did you

781
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,679
get it

782
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,440
yeah i got it here it is i figure it's

783
00:27:49,669 --> 00:27:46,880
not so he stood at the machine and

784
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,679
made copies for one but there's

785
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:51,200
absolutely nothing in there to suggest

786
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:53,039
bonnie barnett was involved in any kind

787
00:28:04,549 --> 00:27:54,399
of

788
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:04,559
and um and his wife whose name escapes

789
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:06,320
me at the moment

790
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,840
um were at a thanksgiving dinner with

791
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,200
barney

792
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,320
in 1947 and it's key it was 1947 so we

793
00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:16,480
have the diary entry and

794
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:19,600
vern said he seemed to remember that

795
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:20,399
barney barnett

796
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,559
talking about this thing at that that um

797
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:26,240
thanksgiving dinner alice knight was

798
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,919
there as well there's nothing in the

799
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:29,600
diary about that either well we had

800
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,559
dinner

801
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:32,080
barney told us this amazing story about

802
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:33,760
seeing a crash flying saucer

803
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,840
if he had been so frightened that he

804
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:37,360
didn't share the information with his

805
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:38,000
wife

806
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:41,840
in july now he feels safe to talk in

807
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:43,600
november why doesn't she mention this in

808
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:44,320
the diary

809
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:46,000
we would love to have something like

810
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:48,320
that a document from 1947 where they're

811
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:50,080
actually talking about it

812
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:53,600
um carl and i thought that

813
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:56,159
probably what happened is that the story

814
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:57,840
that barney barnett was telling actually

815
00:29:02,149 --> 00:29:00,399
had more to do with the aztec crash

816
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:02,159
than it did with anything else and they

817
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,520
probably began telling the story

818
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:05,760
sometime after 1950

819
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,039
so we don't think that he was on the

820
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:09,279
plains of san agustin in 1947.

821
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,399
i don't believe the story given that all

822
00:29:16,149 --> 00:29:14,559
testimony about the plains of san

823
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:16,159
augustine crash comes back to barney

824
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:17,440
barnett

825
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:19,760
we found a guy we found a number of

826
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,799
scientists who were

827
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,799
involved in research on the plains of

828
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:24,880
san agustin there's a number of old

829
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:28,320
prehistoric inhabitations there

830
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:30,000
campsites and whatnot and i hesitate to

831
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:32,320
mention the one it's called bat cave

832
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:35,760
because it's got bats in it the bat cave

833
00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:36,880
oh no

834
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:38,799
it's on the it's on the eastern side of

835
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:40,960
the lake

836
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:44,080
but it faces to the west and the guy

837
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:45,520
named um

838
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:48,159
herbert dick was doing archaeological

839
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:48,960
research

840
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:52,399
at that place in july of 1947

841
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:54,399
and in fact we were able to put him

842
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:56,080
there in that cave

843
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,720
on july 1st because of the documentation

844
00:30:02,549 --> 00:29:59,840
we got from harvard

845
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,559
university so he's on the planes he's on

846
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:03,919
the plains of san agustin

847
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:07,840
when when um gerald anderson is talking

848
00:30:10,710 --> 00:30:09,840
about how he had been involved in

849
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:10,720
in this thing when he was a

850
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:12,159
five-year-old kid and his parents were

851
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:13,440
out he was with his

852
00:30:17,269 --> 00:30:15,520
father and his uncle looking for moss

853
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:17,279
agate on the plains of san agustin which

854
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:18,960
by the way doesn't exist there

855
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,200
i know this because i checked with a

856
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:23,120
number of mineralogists in

857
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:25,919
in new mexico um so he's talking about

858
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:26,799
this huge

859
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,720
battalion-sized op yes

860
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,320
well you can stand you could have stood

861
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:34,240
in bat cave and seen this thing going on

862
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,520
across the lake

863
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:37,679
but her dick said herbert dick said no

864
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:38,960
nothing like that happened he didn't see

865
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:39,760
anything like that

866
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,880
he said i'm not a big fan of the

867
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:42,240
military and if i knew anything i'd tell

868
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:42,960
you

869
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:45,279
i mentioned to the stan and stan says

870
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:46,080
well

871
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:47,600
we don't know how deep he was in the

872
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,039
cave and we don't know which way it's

873
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:51,440
facing and i said yeah but we do

874
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,120
they're looking for humanification in

875
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:55,520
the cave very deep into it because

876
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:56,640
they've got to stay up front where they

877
00:31:01,029 --> 00:30:58,080
can get the light

878
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:01,039
and it's facing the right direction just

879
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:02,799
just for those that are unaware so

880
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:05,200
you know the original roswell story is a

881
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:05,840
crash

882
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,080
and then and stan's book comes out and

883
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:10,399
and talks about this second crash site

884
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,279
and

885
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,039
is it your position then that the second

886
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:15,120
crash site with the bodies and all these

887
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:17,919
tactile stories is not credible part of

888
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:19,840
the actual real story

889
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:22,000
the second crash diet site on the plains

890
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,679
of san agustin we don't believe is part

891
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:26,399
of the credible 1947 roswell story

892
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,480
there is a second crash site closer to

893
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:30,399
roswell where bodies were recovered

894
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:32,320
according to a number of people that we

895
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:33,600
talked to including

896
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,880
chester lytle who was um

897
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,640
a scientist of some renowned and helped

898
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:40,000
develop the atomic trigger for the

899
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,039
atomic bomb and

900
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:43,760
was working on hydrofolds hydrofoils and

901
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,640
things like that

902
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:47,840
was a good friend of butch blanchard and

903
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:48,960
which blanchard being the commander of

904
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:50,640
the 509th bomb group i sometimes forget

905
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:51,600
that people aren't as

906
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:55,120
enmeshed in the minutia yeah yeah

907
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:56,559
but butch blanchard was the the

908
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:58,240
commanding officer of the 509 bomb group

909
00:32:01,669 --> 00:31:59,760
at the time and he was responsible for

910
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:01,679
all the recovery operations

911
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:04,399
and lytle told and i don't know why he

912
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:07,440
didn't tell don to me but he told

913
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:10,880
robert hastings that he had been

914
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:14,159
in alaska with blanchard and while he

915
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:15,760
was there his wife

916
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:19,360
went into labor in chicago and he had to

917
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:19,679
get

918
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:21,760
home and so they got an airplane because

919
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:23,360
now bryant blanchard was a general and

920
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:23,919
he could say

921
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:25,200
i'd like an airplane to go to chicago

922
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:26,720
and they say yes sir when would you like

923
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:28,399
to leave um

924
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,840
so they're on this trip to chicago on

925
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,880
the airplane and blanche

926
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:34,320
tells him that there had been four

927
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,320
bodies recovered

928
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,799
uh granted chester lytle didn't see the

929
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:40,320
bodies but he's getting the information

930
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:41,039
from

931
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,799
known and we talked to a couple of other

932
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:46,320
people who said they had seen the bodies

933
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:47,120
as well

934
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:49,919
but but the point is we we were able to

935
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:51,279
and i shouldn't say we at this point

936
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:52,559
because i think it was mainly worked by

937
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,360
tom kerry

938
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:55,760
and don smith that actually located the

939
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:57,440
specific site where the bodies were

940
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,559
found

941
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:00,159
closer to roswell although we had had

942
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:02,399
hints of it before that um

943
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,200
bill rickett who was the ncoic which is

944
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:06,720
the non-commissioned officer in charge

945
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,720
of the counterintelligence operation in

946
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:10,799
roswell in 1947

947
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:13,039
talked to us about going out to a crash

948
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,000
site where

949
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:16,159
there was much closer to roswell than

950
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:19,039
the brazil site up near corona

951
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:22,320
so uh when we look at it i i am not a

952
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:23,200
fan of

953
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:27,360
the plains of san agustin crash

954
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,679
because everything really traces back to

955
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:31,279
barney barnett you don't have

956
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:33,120
additional witnesses it's bonnie barnett

957
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,960
and that's it you're done

958
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,640
but when we talk about these other sites

959
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:38,000
and things closer to roswell then

960
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:39,440
we then we pick up many many more

961
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:40,960
witnesses who had seen things like

962
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:43,279
melvin brown for example who was

963
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:46,080
part of the guard detail um thomas

964
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:47,360
gonzalez

965
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:51,039
who was part of it talking about what

966
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:53,440
they had seen gonzalez in fact spent

967
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:55,519
i guess years carving little wooden

968
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,559
figures of

969
00:34:01,789 --> 00:33:58,399
of the alien creatures i think if you go

970
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:01,799
to my blog

971
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:03,120
kevinrendall.blogspot.com i think

972
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:04,960
there's pictures of what he's carved up

973
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,399
there and if there's not there should be

974
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:10,879
but uh so as we have much better

975
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:11,679
evidence for

976
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:13,679
for roswell and we have very little for

977
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:15,679
over on the plains of san augustine

978
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,560
um but i think when they started when

979
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:20,879
they started the only

980
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:24,159
story about bodies alien bodies was

981
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:28,800
that um uh was the barney barnett tale

982
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:31,760
and so they they ran with that and and i

983
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:34,159
mean don and i did the same thing in one

984
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:35,839
respect we talked to a guy named frank

985
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:37,599
kaufman who was talking about

986
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,879
being involved in the recovery of the

987
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:40,480
craft and the bodies and things like

988
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:41,839
that and what the bodies looked like and

989
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:42,960
all of these things

990
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,560
and it turned out that frank kaufman

991
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:46,320
wasn't telling the truth

992
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:50,240
he was as that other person said a liar

993
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:53,839
but he the other person determined that

994
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:55,520
frank kaufman was a liar because he just

995
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,800
didn't believe the roswell involved in

996
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:58,560
alien spacecraft and ergo anybody

997
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:00,880
suggested otherwise must be a liar

998
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:03,040
we actually been proved that the guy was

999
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:04,000
a liar

1000
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:06,400
so that yeah and i was gonna i was gonna

1001
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:07,680
ask you about that like

1002
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,480
i've heard some criticism uh leveled

1003
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:12,720
against you for what i feel is the right

1004
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,599
thing to do

1005
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:15,440
because there has been some things in a

1006
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:16,640
few of your books

1007
00:35:22,390 --> 00:35:19,839
that you put forth as factual

1008
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:22,400
at one time and later sort of pulled

1009
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:22,880
back

1010
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,440
from and said it turns out that this

1011
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:27,040
person's information was not very

1012
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:27,920
credible

1013
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:31,680
and and i no longer agree with that but

1014
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,880
isn't that a healthier position to take

1015
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,400
to just admit that you were wrong

1016
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:38,160
sometimes than to

1017
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,480
double down on on stuff you know is is

1018
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:42,640
not factual after the fact you know

1019
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:44,720
if if we're looking for the truth if

1020
00:35:50,069 --> 00:35:47,280
we're seeking the truth so to speak

1021
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:50,079
then um yeah you have to do that and and

1022
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:50,640
what

1023
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:54,240
believed it to be true we were told by

1024
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:55,760
other people you believe what this guy

1025
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:58,320
said frank kaufman said we had a picture

1026
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:01,200
of him in the 1947 yearbook receiving a

1027
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:02,400
medal from one of the

1028
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:04,079
senior officers at the roswell army

1029
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:07,440
airfield frank is in civilian clothing

1030
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:10,480
but um in the middle i think the medal

1031
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:11,839
and i can't really tell from the picture

1032
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:13,040
because it's in black and white i think

1033
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:14,640
it's a world war ii victory medal which

1034
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,880
is no big deal anybody who served during

1035
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:19,119
the time of world war ii got the world

1036
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:20,720
war ii victory medal when the war was

1037
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:21,520
over

1038
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,800
so it wasn't a big deal so i don't know

1039
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:24,720
why they were presenting it to him

1040
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,480
in that kind of an arena but we have a

1041
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:27,920
picture of him so clearly he was

1042
00:36:32,310 --> 00:36:29,440
involved with the roswell

1043
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:32,320
army airfield in july of 1947 so he

1044
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,280
could have been what he

1045
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:35,119
what he claimed to be he showed us his

1046
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:37,040
military separation documents which

1047
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:38,800
showed he had been a master sergeant and

1048
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:39,680
had been trained in

1049
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:41,760
intelligence he showed us other

1050
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,839
documents he had that put him on a list

1051
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:45,359
of people that were active granted

1052
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,000
access to

1053
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,359
specific and things like that so we had

1054
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:51,280
this documentation

1055
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,000
which didn't mean that we didn't keep

1056
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,079
looking and asking things after frank

1057
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:58,640
died and this was after he died

1058
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:01,119
mark chesney mark rodinger and don

1059
00:37:05,990 --> 00:37:02,560
schmidt were in roswell

1060
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,000
and juanita kaufman

1061
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:08,400
frank's wife asked them to go to some of

1062
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:09,760
his papers because she wanted to make

1063
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:10,560
sure that

1064
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:12,320
there were no outstanding contracts that

1065
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,640
he was obligated to fulfill

1066
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,880
dealing with the appearances on tv are

1067
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:18,079
like this and as they're going through

1068
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:19,440
his desk

1069
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:22,000
they found two old-fashioned typewriters

1070
00:37:26,069 --> 00:37:23,520
they found a stack of

1071
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:26,079
paper from world war ii they found his

1072
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:27,760
original discharge papers which showed

1073
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:29,200
he'd been a staff sergeant and been

1074
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,599
trained

1075
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:32,240
in administration well then mark did

1076
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,000
some additional work

1077
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:36,720
and talking to some people who were at

1078
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,960
roswell in 1947 learned exactly what he

1079
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:40,160
was doing so we learned that frank

1080
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,440
kaufman was not a credible

1081
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:43,520
credible source well rather than trying

1082
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:46,320
to bolster his credibility

1083
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:49,520
um i insisted they didn't want they

1084
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:51,680
didn't want to release the information

1085
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,480
um right away out of out of their

1086
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:56,400
compassion for juanita

1087
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,920
of kaufman because i mean now we're

1088
00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:00,400
going to call her husband's a liar

1089
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:02,720
and he just passed away yeah and he just

1090
00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:04,000
passed away and and i

1091
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,280
i that was their compassionate attitude

1092
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:09,760
i think it was 18 months later i was

1093
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:10,880
doing a

1094
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:14,000
i was involved in a documentary and

1095
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:16,240
and they asked me about kaufman at that

1096
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:17,920
point and i said yeah we we don't find

1097
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:19,760
this story credible anymore and here's

1098
00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:20,400
why

1099
00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:21,920
and then mark rodicker and i did the

1100
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,599
article for the international uf

1101
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:25,119
reporter where we presented the

1102
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:26,480
documentation

1103
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,839
and the other evidence that showed that

1104
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:29,520
frank hoffman had not been

1105
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:31,520
completely candid with us yeah he had

1106
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:34,000
been a a sergeant during world war

1107
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:35,920
ii but he'd been a staff sergeant not a

1108
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:37,119
master sergeant he had

1109
00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:40,320
no training in intelligence and so

1110
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:42,880
um you know the only the only thing you

1111
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:45,119
can do is say wow we blew it on that one

1112
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:46,880
but at that point i started vetting

1113
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:49,200
people much more religiously and rigidly

1114
00:38:53,349 --> 00:38:50,320
than i had before

1115
00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:56,310
crash when ufos fall from the sky and

1116
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,160
what i wanted to do

1117
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,200
i i was going to include the del rio ufo

1118
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:03,200
crash from december 6 1950 and

1119
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:05,520
a guy named robert willingham was the

1120
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:06,560
source on that

1121
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:09,920
retired air force um

1122
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:12,960
colonel he said air force fighter pilot

1123
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,720
and so i did my due diligence i wrote to

1124
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:18,400
st louis where they keep the military

1125
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:20,720
records of those who are retired

1126
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:24,400
or or have left military service

1127
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,000
and got his records back and it showed

1128
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:28,880
that he had been a low-ranking enlisted

1129
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:29,920
man he did he

1130
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:32,160
was technically a veteran of world war

1131
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:33,119
ii he'd entered the

1132
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:36,240
entered the army in december of 1945

1133
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:39,440
the war wasn't officially declared over

1134
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,839
until

1135
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:41,760
the middle of 1946 although the shooting

1136
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,720
stopped in what august of 1945.

1137
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:46,240
so he's technically a veteran of world

1138
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:47,839
war ii

1139
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:50,880
but he had been an e4 no flight training

1140
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:51,920
or anything like that

1141
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:55,200
i looked at something else as a military

1142
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:57,119
pilot i know this

1143
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:59,680
when we finished flight school we were

1144
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,280
told we could stay an extra day

1145
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:03,599
in well it would have been in at fort

1146
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,480
rucker

1147
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,640
and the faa would give us a written

1148
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:08,400
examination 50 questions

1149
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:12,160
on um faa regulations we'd have a class

1150
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:13,520
about it and then we'd take the test

1151
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,720
type thing

1152
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,079
and then we would be granted a

1153
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:18,560
commercial pilot's license

1154
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,760
and that's a good deal for one day right

1155
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,079
yeah we've been gone from home for 13

1156
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:26,400
months we're about to go to vietnam

1157
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:29,680
it was adios muchacho i'm on my way home

1158
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:32,640
uh we didn't do that but but then once i

1159
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,040
got back from vietnam and once um

1160
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:37,359
i was at the university of iowa and i

1161
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:39,119
was on summer vacation we were going up

1162
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:39,359
to

1163
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,400
the faa office in des moines iowa

1164
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:46,800
and took the test and graduated and got

1165
00:40:50,630 --> 00:40:48,560
my my

1166
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,640
commercial pilot's license you had to

1167
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:52,480
document you had to bring a dd4

1168
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:54,480
form 214 in your flight record so they

1169
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:55,839
could verify your flight records got

1170
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:56,400
like

1171
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:58,800
1200 hours of combat flight time so the

1172
00:41:03,430 --> 00:40:59,920
200 hour

1173
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:03,440
um requirement for flight experience uh

1174
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:08,790
probably right when we graduated from

1175
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:10,480
high school i think i had 210 hours of

1176
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:12,079
flight time so i bet met that

1177
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:14,640
met that um criterion there was some

1178
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:15,200
poor guy

1179
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:16,800
in there taking his private pilot's

1180
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:19,040
devices test for private lines he had

1181
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:19,760
maps out

1182
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,359
he's charting courses and all of this

1183
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:23,119
stuff i blow in i take

1184
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,870
i've got a commercial pilot's license

1185
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,560
well this guy willingham didn't have a

1186
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,160
commercial pilot's license he had a

1187
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:36,079
private pilot's license i could figure

1188
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:38,000
out no reason why a military pilot would

1189
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,480
get a

1190
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,079
private pilot's license unless of course

1191
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:42,240
he wasn't a military pilot

1192
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,000
well so that's interesting but see like

1193
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,560
i said i for one found it like a good

1194
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:48,000
thing when you came out later

1195
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:49,760
and said this person's story is no

1196
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,599
longer credible a big

1197
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:54,640
another another big controversy on my

1198
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:56,480
list of questions here

1199
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:58,720
and this is very hotly debated amongst

1200
00:42:02,950 --> 00:41:59,520
believers

1201
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,960
and skeptics uh or really

1202
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:04,960
of everybody about roswell and that is

1203
00:42:09,910 --> 00:42:06,880
the debris switch

1204
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:09,920
because i've got two people in that room

1205
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,160
where they took the famous photos of the

1206
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:14,880
of the so-called roswell debris

1207
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:18,480
that later said they switched the debris

1208
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,119
out

1209
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:21,200
kalkworth claims that the debris switch

1210
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:22,400
was an invention

1211
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:25,920
of uh of stanton friedman that there was

1212
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:27,839
no debris switch that was what they

1213
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,640
found

1214
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:30,720
what they took the pictures of but these

1215
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:32,240
two military gentlemen there

1216
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:35,359
marcel and uh the colonel department

1217
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:36,800
colonel dubose

1218
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:39,760
later said and and i have like the

1219
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:40,960
written quotes

1220
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:43,359
of what they said is that that was not

1221
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:44,640
the same

1222
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:48,160
the ranch

1223
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:49,440
well if you look at the pictures in the

1224
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:50,800
roswell incident book they've been

1225
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:52,240
cropped

1226
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,160
and you look at the pictures and it says

1227
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:55,839
this is the breed that they found there

1228
00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:56,319
well that's

1229
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:58,240
simply untrue because when you see the

1230
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:59,520
full picture clearly it's a weather

1231
00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:00,240
balloon

1232
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:02,800
and a ray win radar target that's been

1233
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:04,240
seriously degraded

1234
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:06,079
so that's absolutely right that the

1235
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:08,480
pictures show

1236
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:11,440
stuff but marcel said that's not the

1237
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:12,880
stuff i brought from roswell

1238
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:16,160
and dubose said um the

1239
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:18,000
the debris was switched now the

1240
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:19,599
interesting thing is i think

1241
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:20,960
that person whose name i don't want to

1242
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:23,280
mention kalkorf

1243
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:26,800
oh boy said that said that um

1244
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:29,359
when stan found the full pictures he

1245
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,720
talked to marcel about it

1246
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:32,800
and they came up with this idea that the

1247
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:34,720
debris was switched to keep the story

1248
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:35,440
going

1249
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:37,040
okay let's say that's true let's say

1250
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,720
that that that happened

1251
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:40,800
what's the motivation for dubose to say

1252
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,319
it

1253
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:44,319
there's no he's not he's not looking to

1254
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,160
be on tv he's not looking to write a

1255
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:49,280
book he's not looking for any kind of

1256
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,560
fame or glory he we went to him

1257
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:54,240
to talk to him about it and he brought

1258
00:43:59,349 --> 00:43:57,359
it up about the debris being switched

1259
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:59,359
so we've got two people who are abs

1260
00:44:02,550 --> 00:44:00,720
absolutely that's

1261
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:02,560
the colorized version of it which yeah

1262
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:04,240
actually i want to thank one of my

1263
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:05,040
viewers here

1264
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,079
uh called spooky who uh went and

1265
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:10,480
colorized the original photos

1266
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,480
which i think really is really

1267
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:16,640
but make it look more realistic that

1268
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:18,480
this was crazy

1269
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,520
here's my problem with my problem with

1270
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:23,280
the debris switch

1271
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:24,800
the people that don't believe there was

1272
00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:26,560
a debris switch is

1273
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:29,440
is this these are intelligence officers

1274
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,720
for the 509th

1275
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:32,800
bomb group the only bomb group in the

1276
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:34,720
united states that handles nuclear

1277
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:35,760
weapons

1278
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:37,599
they have access to the greatest

1279
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,839
technology in the united states

1280
00:44:44,069 --> 00:44:41,440
they see these weather balloons and

1281
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:44,079
experiments all the time at the base

1282
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:45,920
i think they would know what a weather

1283
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:47,200
balloon is

1284
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:50,720
thing i would like to ask you because my

1285
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:52,400
father was a military man

1286
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:55,599
like you if if if your commanding

1287
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,319
officer

1288
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:58,240
were to order you you're going to stand

1289
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:59,680
there when these photographers come in

1290
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:01,359
and take keep your mouth shut and

1291
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,880
and they're going to take these pictures

1292
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:04,400
don't say a word

1293
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:06,160
you're going to you're going to do that

1294
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:07,680
right you're just going to do what

1295
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:08,800
you're told

1296
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:11,040
there's no motivation for marcel when

1297
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:12,560
those pictures are taken to stand up and

1298
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:14,640
say no no this isn't the stuff i brought

1299
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:16,400
the general sitting right there telling

1300
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:19,280
him you told him you don't say anything

1301
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,400
about what's going on and just pose for

1302
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:24,560
the picture so that's what happened

1303
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:27,440
i have the story from um jay von johnson

1304
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:28,800
the guy that took the pictures that

1305
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,680
we're showing here

1306
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:31,599
the those pictures j von johnson i

1307
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,440
talked to him

1308
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:35,280
four or five times and his story

1309
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,640
radically changes that

1310
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:38,240
that that's the real he finally says

1311
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:39,520
that's the real debris that they brought

1312
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:41,040
from roswell no it

1313
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:44,079
it's not but it's because he learned

1314
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,960
that if

1315
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,800
what he photographed was the weather

1316
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:48,079
balloon and

1317
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:49,440
what uh in the picture of general

1318
00:45:52,390 --> 00:45:50,880
raymond you can see the balloon back

1319
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,400
there that the black

1320
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:54,880
mass behind raymie is is the degraded

1321
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:56,079
weather balloon

1322
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:58,000
he realized that if all he took of

1323
00:46:01,829 --> 00:45:59,280
pictures was of this

1324
00:46:02,470 --> 00:46:01,839
this debris this from from a railway

1325
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:02,480
target

1326
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:04,160
then his pictures aren't as important as

1327
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:06,000
if it was the real stuff

1328
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,839
uh the pictures are important because it

1329
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:09,440
puts the people in

1330
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,990
fort worth and on on july 8 1947

1331
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:17,760
talking about this specific thing and

1332
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,760
this is the uh one of the pictures of

1333
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,119
raymie he's holding

1334
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:22,800
the the memo that we all have been

1335
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,119
trying to read for a decade

1336
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,960
yeah i was gonna that's on my list of

1337
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,640
questions as well what do you

1338
00:46:32,309 --> 00:46:30,240
what here's here's the picture of the

1339
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:32,319
famous and i have an even better

1340
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,599
um the other picture of rainy raymond

1341
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:37,599
dubose i think is the one where he's got

1342
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:38,160
the uh

1343
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:41,839
the memo as we see it as we try to um

1344
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,839
yeah let me find i give you another

1345
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:46,480
yeah i have some other photos here of

1346
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:46,880
that

1347
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:49,280
i believe yeah but what do you think of

1348
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:50,400
these people

1349
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,319
who claim that they've decoded what's on

1350
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,319
the memo and it talks about bodies and

1351
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:56,560
crash recovery and things of that nature

1352
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:57,760
do you think that

1353
00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:00,800
it's credible that that people are

1354
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:02,480
actually getting the real

1355
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:04,960
what was really on that piece of paper

1356
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:07,839
there's a digital technology now

1357
00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:10,880
there's a i've looked at that thing

1358
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,880
literally for decades i've been involved

1359
00:47:17,030 --> 00:47:14,160
in

1360
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:17,040
uh two two attempts to read it at the

1361
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:19,680
university of texas at arlington

1362
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,920
thanks again to spooky this is why it's

1363
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,520
tantalizing like

1364
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:25,680
you can almost you think it looks like

1365
00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:27,280
you could read that from this

1366
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:29,839
angle it looks like you're readable and

1367
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,800
when you get to

1368
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,359
um a blow up of just that i've got an

1369
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:35,200
8x10 blow up and you can actually read

1370
00:47:38,549 --> 00:47:36,800
some of the words you can see fort worth

1371
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,559
texas you can see weather balloons

1372
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:41,040
in that memo but the way it's folded and

1373
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:42,400
the way it's bent

1374
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:44,319
it obscures some of it there's a line at

1375
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:45,599
the very top

1376
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:47,920
and i think david rudiak has decoded it

1377
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:50,960
as saying victims of the wreck

1378
00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:54,000
um others have said brought up

1379
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,720
other things um one of the one of the um

1380
00:48:02,069 --> 00:48:00,960
people that i was involved with with

1381
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:02,079
trying to to

1382
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:04,240
scan a thing thought the word instead of

1383
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:06,160
victims was viewing of the wreck well

1384
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:07,040
that changes the

1385
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:10,240
the context of the memo completely

1386
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,559
the other thing is jay bond johnson at

1387
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,400
first said that he brought the document

1388
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:17,040
into the into raymie's office and it's

1389
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:18,839
the teletype from the fort worth star

1390
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,359
telegram and he handed it to raimi and

1391
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:23,119
so remy's holding that in the picture

1392
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:24,319
well if it's a teletype from the

1393
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:25,440
newspaper then it's

1394
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,720
not that important uh johnson later

1395
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:30,160
changed his story and said no no i

1396
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:30,800
didn't

1397
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:34,000
his desk and i handed to him so he'd

1398
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:35,119
have something in his hand and i'm

1399
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:37,599
thinking yeah that makes a lot of sense

1400
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:40,720
but um the last time we did that and it

1401
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:42,640
was february of this year i was down

1402
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:43,520
there with

1403
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:47,440
a number of people and what was the the

1404
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,800
history's greatest mysteries on the

1405
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:50,480
history channel they did the three-part

1406
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:51,680
roswell segment

1407
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:54,800
and i was there a guy named jane cooper

1408
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:57,760
brought in his equipment and now

1409
00:49:00,570 --> 00:48:59,520
scanning the negative almost down to the

1410
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:00,580
molecular level

1411
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:03,760
[Music]

1412
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:06,559
super high quality scan of the actual oh

1413
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:06,960
it's

1414
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,040
negative it took him hours to do it i

1415
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:10,800
mean it's just it would take a picture

1416
00:49:13,990 --> 00:49:12,400
and take a picture and take a picture as

1417
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,000
it moved across the whole thing

1418
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:16,559
taking the picture and it and and

1419
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,720
eventually gets down to almost

1420
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:20,720
molecular level and then what he does is

1421
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:22,720
he puts it all back together

1422
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,880
in layers that tries to clarify it and

1423
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:28,640
when he got it all done and we looked at

1424
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,000
it on the screen i'm thinking oh my

1425
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:32,160
god it doesn't say viewing it doesn't

1426
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:33,760
say victims it's a there's a different

1427
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:35,200
word up there now

1428
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:39,040
um but that's the problem you

1429
00:49:42,390 --> 00:49:40,559
can almost see what you want to see i

1430
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:42,400
know tom carrey said the moment he saw

1431
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,520
the the he flashed the thing up on the

1432
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:47,200
screen he was

1433
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,559
the state section director in

1434
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:50,240
pennsylvania and they had a meeting at

1435
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:51,520
his house and he had a

1436
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:53,839
slide with it and he threw it up on the

1437
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:55,839
on the wall and he looked at he said it

1438
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:57,680
jumped out and viewed victims of the

1439
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:59,920
wreck i can look at that and i can see

1440
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:00,480
view

1441
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:04,000
of the wreck i can see where it's so

1442
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:05,920
messed up you really can't tell and

1443
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:07,119
you're getting down when you get down to

1444
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:08,640
the molecular level then you get all

1445
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:10,160
that other trash

1446
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:13,280
from a regular old negative

1447
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,720
uh we don't have we don't have that

1448
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:16,240
problem with the digital cameras today

1449
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:17,920
that we have with that negative

1450
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:20,559
and a number of people said well if you

1451
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:22,480
if if the photography just been just

1452
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:26,079
a foot closer you know and had angled it

1453
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:28,000
just a little bit

1454
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,920
differently we'd probably be able to

1455
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:31,760
read it i think to the

1456
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:33,599
we're at the point now on the raimi memo

1457
00:50:38,470 --> 00:50:35,200
we're not going to get a good read

1458
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:38,480
until they can use artificial

1459
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:40,240
intelligence to put the thing together

1460
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:41,599
and see what it says

1461
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:43,680
some kind of computer access in that

1462
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,640
fashion

1463
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:46,240
to see if we can figure out what it says

1464
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,599
it may be to the point we're never going

1465
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:48,880
to be able to read it

1466
00:50:54,069 --> 00:50:51,200
so basically it's very that whole thing

1467
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,079
is very tantalizing but inconclusive

1468
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,040
absolutely absolutely i i i know i know

1469
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:59,040
david rudiak swears that it says victims

1470
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,960
of the wreck and i know people say that

1471
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,119
and i can see it when i look at it and i

1472
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:04,800
can see it saying other stuff i

1473
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:06,640
i think that what we where we are is

1474
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:08,800
that just inconclusive

1475
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,359
we just can't really tell well that's

1476
00:51:14,549 --> 00:51:13,440
very disappointing and i wanted to ask

1477
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:14,559
you about

1478
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:17,200
one other witness and that is the

1479
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:18,400
mortician

1480
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:21,359
witness because he tells a really

1481
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:22,960
compelling story about

1482
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,280
you know his nurse friends saw the uh

1483
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:27,200
saw the bodies and

1484
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:30,240
and was in on the autopsy but then we

1485
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:31,599
can't find the woman

1486
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:35,680
or people did find the woman uh you know

1487
00:51:38,950 --> 00:51:37,520
this is what is his name uh glenn dennis

1488
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:38,960
right glenn dennis yes

1489
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:47,589
continuing to disappoint me kevin like i

1490
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:49,200
want to believe that guy's story i

1491
00:51:53,349 --> 00:51:50,720
really do because that would be a

1492
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:53,359
smoking gun like he saw it this girl saw

1493
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:55,200
the bodies but then she mysteriously

1494
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:56,720
vanished and died and

1495
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:00,720
you know and and we met with him

1496
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:05,359
um i think in 1990

1497
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:07,119
and he sits down for an interview and he

1498
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:08,400
tells us the story

1499
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,680
of the nurse that she was called in and

1500
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:13,599
well he tells about how he went out to

1501
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:15,760
um he'd gotten a call for

1502
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:19,119
for a child-sized cat cat just

1503
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,160
cactuses yeah caskets

1504
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:24,559
yeah caskets that can be metrically

1505
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:25,920
sealed

1506
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,440
and we're thinking why do they have to

1507
00:52:33,510 --> 00:52:32,000
be child sized

1508
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:33,520
you know that's a detail we really don't

1509
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:35,599
need i mean a metrically sealed casket

1510
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:37,680
would have done just fine you don't need

1511
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:40,319
a child-sized one but he said he said

1512
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:41,440
well that got him to thinking there was

1513
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,800
some kind of accident out of the base so

1514
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:44,319
he goes out to the base and he

1515
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:47,680
gets out of his car whatever

1516
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:49,280
and as he's walking and he looks in the

1517
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:50,640
back of the ambulance and he sees some

1518
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,359
debris

1519
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:52,800
in there and something that's got kind

1520
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:54,480
of the top of a canoe on it

1521
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:56,800
like like the front of a canoe and he

1522
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:58,079
goes in there and she tells him you got

1523
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:59,119
to get out of here going to get in

1524
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,559
trouble and this

1525
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,319
mean captain coming up and yells at him

1526
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,280
and tells him to leave and says that uh

1527
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:07,680
um and dennis says well i'm a civilian

1528
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:09,040
you can't do anything to me and i'm

1529
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:10,400
thinking well that's a stupid thing to

1530
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:11,680
say because you're on a military base

1531
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:13,040
you wanna see how fast they can

1532
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:14,640
yeah they can do all kinds of things to

1533
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:16,960
you while you're on there

1534
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,599
yeah do that as it may um the captain

1535
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:21,119
said you'll be surprised what i can do

1536
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:23,040
and the nco says you'll be picking your

1537
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,559
bones out of the sand

1538
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,800
and he says this nco is is a an

1539
00:53:30,470 --> 00:53:28,400
african-american fellow and i'm thinking

1540
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:30,480
1947 i'm not sure they'd put up with

1541
00:53:35,829 --> 00:53:32,240
that kind of talk

1542
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:35,839
from an nco like that

1543
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,400
but um so he leaves and then she meets

1544
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:40,079
him and tells him about seeing the

1545
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,680
bodies and all of this stuff

1546
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:43,040
and so we're talking to him and i said

1547
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:44,160
well you know we need the name and he

1548
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:45,680
said i'll tell you the name

1549
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:48,079
but don't tell anybody you know make

1550
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:49,680
your search for it but don't tell

1551
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:50,400
anybody

1552
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:53,599
her name is naomi self thinking okay

1553
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,800
so months later i'm talking to glenn

1554
00:53:58,790 --> 00:53:58,480
dennis about something on the phone and

1555
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:58,800
he

1556
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:00,880
berating me for not finding naomi itself

1557
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,480
he says i gave you the name why can't

1558
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:04,160
you find her

1559
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:06,480
and i said you know we've been looking

1560
00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:07,760
for a number of people

1561
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,880
there's a guy named

1562
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:12,800
well i'll just pick one out of the air

1563
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:14,400
george schultz we've been looking for

1564
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:15,760
him i said i talked to a guy by that

1565
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,599
name today he was a major

1566
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:19,440
in the uh army air forces but it's not

1567
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,359
the right guy and dennis says oh i know

1568
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:23,119
him he lives over in alamogordo

1569
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:25,760
or las cruces over in las cruces and lo

1570
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:27,599
and behold that's the right guy

1571
00:54:30,710 --> 00:54:28,960
but the point of the story is glenn

1572
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,720
dennis is yelling at me because i have

1573
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:32,640
not found his nurse i've just now found

1574
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:33,760
this other guy by

1575
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:36,799
accident but i haven't found his nurse a

1576
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:37,359
guy named

1577
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:40,559
victor golubek took an interest in the

1578
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:43,040
nurse i tried to get the um

1579
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:46,880
the um daily

1580
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:49,920
daily reports from the army back in 1947

1581
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:51,440
every unit had to fill out a daily

1582
00:54:54,390 --> 00:54:52,000
report so

1583
00:54:55,510 --> 00:54:54,400
every squadron on the banks every unit

1584
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:55,520
on the base would fill out a daily

1585
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,599
report and tell you who wasn't sick

1586
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:59,520
who was on sick call who was on leave

1587
00:55:01,750 --> 00:55:01,040
who had joined the unit who'd left the

1588
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:01,760
unit so they

1589
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:03,520
could account everybody everybody names

1590
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:05,200
appear in these lists and we found a

1591
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:06,640
number of people's serial numbers on

1592
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:08,079
those so we could get their records and

1593
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:09,200
find out

1594
00:55:13,349 --> 00:55:11,680
exactly what we needed to know and naomi

1595
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:13,359
self never appeared there

1596
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:16,799
but i got the medical medical units i i

1597
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,480
requested the medical units

1598
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:20,559
but i got the hhc at the headquarters

1599
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:21,760
and so it didn't help and i mentioned

1600
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:22,240
that to

1601
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:24,960
goyabic well he managed to get the um

1602
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:26,000
the

1603
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:31,359
beginning of 1947

1604
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:34,640
through 1948 so he had a whole stack of

1605
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:34,960
them

1606
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:38,319
her name never appears so vic confronts

1607
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:40,640
dennis with this and says no nurse

1608
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,920
he went through a lot of other things to

1609
00:55:47,030 --> 00:55:44,079
do he found a listing of all army nurses

1610
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:47,040
125 000 women who've been army nurses

1611
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:50,480
naomi self didn't appear named this wow

1612
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:53,760
you got to admire his dedication he went

1613
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:55,440
he went and found all the names of all

1614
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,200
the nurses working in the civilian

1615
00:56:02,870 --> 00:55:59,359
hospitals in roswell to see if maybe she

1616
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:02,880
had been a civilian nurse no

1617
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:06,720
no so vic confronts him with this

1618
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:09,520
and glenn dennis says well i told you i

1619
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:10,720
told him i'd give him a name but it

1620
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:12,000
wouldn't be the right name

1621
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:14,240
her name wasn't naomi self so he's now

1622
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:16,000
set us back to ground zero

1623
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:18,720
but i remember exactly what he told us

1624
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:20,319
don't tell anybody what the name was

1625
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:22,000
then he proceeded to tell everybody

1626
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:23,200
under the sun what her name was

1627
00:56:29,270 --> 00:56:25,200
including philip class

1628
00:56:30,390 --> 00:56:29,280
so um that kind of soured me on glenn

1629
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,400
dennis

1630
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:32,000
and then we found some other things out

1631
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:34,000
that he wasn't a mortician in roswell in

1632
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:36,720
1947 he was an embalmer

1633
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,720
which means he worked in the mortuary

1634
00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:40,799
but he wasn't the mortician

1635
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:43,760
and he was having this this affair with

1636
00:56:47,349 --> 00:56:44,000
this

1637
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:47,359
nurse sort of an affair his wife was

1638
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:48,000
pregnant

1639
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:51,440
pretty crappy

1640
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:53,599
uh he said she was killed in an airplane

1641
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:54,799
accident in europe she'd been

1642
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:55,920
transferred to europe and she was killed

1643
00:56:58,390 --> 00:56:57,520
in an airplane accident with five other

1644
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,400
nurses

1645
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:01,440
i went through the new york times from

1646
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:05,520
july of 1947 to like 1953

1647
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:07,200
there's a big index now you can do it

1648
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:09,920
online and do it in seconds

1649
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:13,040
it took me hours but they would break

1650
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:14,000
down the um

1651
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:15,440
the various news stories including

1652
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:17,280
aircraft accidents and i went through

1653
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:20,880
their their indexes for literally

1654
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:23,520
years and could not find an accident

1655
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:24,480
that killed any

1656
00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:26,880
killed five army nurses at one time don

1657
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,559
berliner

1658
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:30,000
went through the stars and stripes the

1659
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:31,839
stars and stripes is a newspaper

1660
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:34,240
that's printed overseas for the for the

1661
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:35,680
the military personnel

1662
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:38,079
stationed overseas the big advantage of

1663
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:39,599
the stars and stripes

1664
00:57:44,710 --> 00:57:42,960
in um yes i crashed for those who can

1665
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:44,720
read body language i scratched my nose

1666
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:44,960
it

1667
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:53,910
there's a very conspiratorial crowd here

1668
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:54,799
okay

1669
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:56,559
i know it's just i'm sorry that's what

1670
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:02,710
i just we saw count we we saw stars and

1671
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:03,520
stripes in

1672
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,640
in in iraq and i was always looking for

1673
00:58:10,549 --> 00:58:08,480
because calvin and hobbes was

1674
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,559
one of the comics they printed oh yeah i

1675
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:11,760
grew up with that sure

1676
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:14,640
yeah so uh um but everything we tried to

1677
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:16,079
check out with glenn dennis didn't check

1678
00:58:19,109 --> 00:58:17,280
out we couldn't find the nurse we

1679
00:58:21,349 --> 00:58:19,119
couldn't find him by the name he lied to

1680
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:21,359
us about this he lied to us about that

1681
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:23,440
the nurse didn't get killed in a trap in

1682
00:58:26,950 --> 00:58:25,440
an aircraft accident all of that sort of

1683
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:26,960
thing so no i don't think glenn dennis

1684
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:28,160
was telling the truth

1685
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:30,720
tom carey believes glenn dennis is

1686
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:31,760
telling the truth and i think

1687
00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:34,319
don kind of leans toward glenn dennis

1688
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,920
being somewhat reliable but he may have

1689
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,680
gotten the story from somebody else

1690
00:58:41,829 --> 00:58:40,079
meaning one of the people who worked at

1691
00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:41,839
the ballard funeral home in roswell at

1692
00:58:44,789 --> 00:58:42,400
the time

1693
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:44,799
as did glenn dennis uh was the guy who

1694
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:46,799
actually got the phone calls

1695
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,200
but the the nurse didn't didn't exist i

1696
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:51,839
think tom now in their latest book

1697
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:55,359
and i don't know what the um i see that

1698
00:59:02,230 --> 00:58:59,119
message secret knows cabal message

1699
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:02,240
um names a different nurse who worked in

1700
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:03,040
a clinic

1701
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:05,440
in in roswell in 1940 as of being the

1702
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:06,400
real nurse

1703
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:07,599
but if you if you're dealing with

1704
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:08,880
something like that you're not going to

1705
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:10,559
bring a civilian nurse in there you're

1706
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:11,760
going to deal with the people that are

1707
00:59:15,030 --> 00:59:13,440
on the base and you can control who they

1708
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:15,040
are and what they say

1709
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:16,640
so i'm sorry i just don't believe the

1710
00:59:20,710 --> 00:59:18,160
glen dennis story i don't believe

1711
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,720
the barney barnett story i do not

1712
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:22,480
believe the gerald anderson story i do

1713
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:24,400
not believe the frank hoffman story

1714
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:26,960
on the other hand i certainly believe

1715
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:28,160
the edwin

1716
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:30,079
easley story edwin easley was the base

1717
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:32,319
provost marshall in 1947 baseball

1718
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:33,680
marshall is the same as the chief of

1719
00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:34,559
police

1720
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:37,440
he uh was in charge of two two companies

1721
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,799
actually a company a squadron he was in

1722
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:40,319
charge of the mp squad uh

1723
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:43,280
mp company and the 390th air service

1724
00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:44,960
squadron i think it was which is also

1725
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,160
specialist

1726
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:48,480
and the mps patrolled the town uh the

1727
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,160
air specialist squadron was

1728
00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:52,480
was involved with security on the base

1729
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:54,400
so he was in charge of that and he told

1730
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:55,520
me

1731
00:59:59,910 --> 00:59:58,559
um in a discussion he would he was

1732
01:00:02,069 --> 00:59:59,920
always very careful what he would say to

1733
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:02,079
me because he was worried about

1734
01:00:06,069 --> 01:00:04,079
the oath he had taken back in 1947 he

1735
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:06,079
didn't want to violate the healthy taken

1736
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:07,359
so he's careful what he said he would

1737
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:08,960
say i can't talk to you about that i'm

1738
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:11,680
sorry i can't talk to you about that

1739
01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:13,119
and i'm on the phone with him one day

1740
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:15,440
and i said are we following the right

1741
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:16,079
path

1742
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:18,559
he said what do you mean and i said we

1743
01:00:21,670 --> 01:00:20,319
think it was extraterrestrial and he

1744
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:21,680
said well let me put it this way it's

1745
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:22,960
not the wrong path

1746
01:00:28,710 --> 01:00:26,000
so there's a guy primary staff member

1747
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:28,720
senior officer at roswell in 1947 i'm

1748
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:31,250
the only person that ever talked to him

1749
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:33,680
[Music]

1750
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:35,839
and he told me it was the right path and

1751
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:37,200
was extraterrestrial

1752
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,599
he told family members as as he was

1753
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:40,880
dying of cancer

1754
01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,799
about the creatures oh the creatures um

1755
01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:46,079
when that guy's name i don't want to

1756
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:47,920
mention kalkorf

1757
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:50,720
attacks but you keep mentioning them

1758
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:51,200
yeah

1759
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:52,640
i know because i want people to know

1760
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:53,760
what the hell i'm talking about i don't

1761
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:54,799
know what's going on

1762
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:58,400
um when when um

1763
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:01,119
kalkorf talked about him in his book he

1764
01:01:04,470 --> 01:01:03,040
actually confused the testimony of three

1765
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:04,480
different people

1766
01:01:07,829 --> 01:01:06,559
when he was trying to to denigrate the

1767
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:07,839
the story told but

1768
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:10,079
the information from from edwin easley

1769
01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:11,520
uh curry holden

1770
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:14,799
um one other fellow

1771
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:21,030
and and of course um edwin easley can oh

1772
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:23,040
i think it was kevin cavett

1773
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:25,200
holden and easily he confused the

1774
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:27,119
testimonies given by those three people

1775
01:01:30,910 --> 01:01:27,599
and

1776
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,920
created one massive uh

1777
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:33,280
conglomeration it was filled with wholly

1778
01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:34,880
inaccurate information

1779
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:36,720
so when he says well we've discredited

1780
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:38,480
edwin easley he hasn't done that he's

1781
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:39,119
just

1782
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:41,760
credited himself in that in that fashion

1783
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:43,920
and i mean i can go on like this oh

1784
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,119
i'll tell you another story because it's

1785
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:47,280
kind of funny korff

1786
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:50,960
um was uh reading from my book he used

1787
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,359
to do

1788
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:53,280
these the scandals of kevin randle on

1789
01:01:56,470 --> 01:01:54,480
youtube i don't know if you can find him

1790
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:56,480
anymore or not

1791
01:02:02,549 --> 01:01:59,200
and he's reading from the book uh they

1792
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:02,559
think the ufo crash at roswell

1793
01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:06,559
marshall come to a son

1794
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:09,839
and it is the son says what is it and

1795
01:02:13,270 --> 01:02:12,480
and jesse senior says well it's a flying

1796
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:13,280
saucer

1797
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:15,599
and car says no didn't use the term

1798
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:17,920
flying saucer in 1947 they were calling

1799
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:20,559
them flying discs

1800
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:22,720
i'm thinking if you look at the roswell

1801
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:25,680
daily record for july 8th 1947

1802
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:28,799
it says raaf roswell army airfield

1803
01:02:33,910 --> 01:02:32,240
finds flying saucer in roswell region

1804
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:33,920
i mean it's in the newspaper for crying

1805
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:35,680
out loud on the very day

1806
01:02:40,150 --> 01:02:37,520
the next day it says general raymie

1807
01:02:42,390 --> 01:02:40,160
empties roswell saucer

1808
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:42,400
um so they used the term so he's there

1809
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:44,000
saying they didn't use the term flying

1810
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:46,079
saucer

1811
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:48,799
and i i i on my blog the the kevin

1812
01:02:51,029 --> 01:02:49,440
randle you

1813
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:51,039
type in kalkorf's name and you'll come

1814
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:52,480
up to a number of stories where he and i

1815
01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:53,920
argue about stuff

1816
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:55,520
but one of them i did was here are the

1817
01:02:59,190 --> 01:02:57,680
newspapers from july of 1947 with the

1818
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:59,200
term flying saucer and then used four

1819
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,559
examples

1820
01:03:05,029 --> 01:03:03,359
so um you know he did a lot of stuff

1821
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:05,039
like that in the book

1822
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,720
and says well i discredited this and i

1823
01:03:11,829 --> 01:03:08,880
discredited that no you didn't

1824
01:03:14,309 --> 01:03:11,839
um you you think in your own brain you

1825
01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:14,319
did but you certainly did not

1826
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:16,160
and i was also wanted to ask you on the

1827
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:17,359
subject of bodies

1828
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:20,319
is there other less known uh people that

1829
01:03:23,670 --> 01:03:21,200
you've interviewed

1830
01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:23,680
that talked about bodies or autopsies or

1831
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,760
where the bodies were taken

1832
01:03:28,950 --> 01:03:27,680
uh that you're aware of that you did

1833
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:28,960
find credible

1834
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:31,920
in so far there's melvin brown there's

1835
01:03:36,309 --> 01:03:33,520
melvin brown

1836
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:36,319
who was an nco um he was a cook at

1837
01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:36,880
roswell

1838
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:38,480
but if you've been in the military you

1839
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:40,880
know that when you suddenly have

1840
01:03:43,589 --> 01:03:42,160
well everybody goes through basic

1841
01:03:44,710 --> 01:03:43,599
training in the basic training you learn

1842
01:03:45,350 --> 01:03:44,720
a number of things like how to stand

1843
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:45,360
guard duty

1844
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,960
[Music]

1845
01:03:50,950 --> 01:03:48,960
yeah a lot of that i'm sure yeah yeah so

1846
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:50,960
when you when um

1847
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:52,880
you got a lot of people you need to

1848
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:54,720
deploy into some kind of an area for

1849
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,920
whatever reason you grab

1850
01:03:59,510 --> 01:03:57,599
everybody you can find and send them out

1851
01:04:03,109 --> 01:03:59,520
there

1852
01:04:04,789 --> 01:04:03,119
um i saw that note

1853
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:04,799
a cow would lose because i'm actually

1854
01:04:08,390 --> 01:04:06,880
trained in the use of firearms hey just

1855
01:04:10,309 --> 01:04:08,400
just so you know everybody's already

1856
01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:10,319
asking me if you guys are going to be on

1857
01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:11,760
the show together

1858
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,599
and here's what i'll say about that if

1859
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:15,599
you guys will agree to it i'll do it

1860
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:17,680
but i think my only task would be to

1861
01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:18,720
keep time

1862
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:22,079
because i don't think that you know like

1863
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:24,160
that kind of debate would be great but i

1864
01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:26,319
think like you guys would just talk over

1865
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:28,480
each other and so i i guess i could just

1866
01:04:32,309 --> 01:04:29,280
referee

1867
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:32,319
and you know keep a timer you have five

1868
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:34,160
minutes you have five minutes you know

1869
01:04:40,549 --> 01:04:36,240
here's the problem with that

1870
01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,559
back a decade and a half ago

1871
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:42,720
um rob mcconnell at the exxon broadcast

1872
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,799
network

1873
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:46,559
would have kalkorf on his show once a

1874
01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:48,960
week and i learned through

1875
01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:50,559
second or third hand people said you

1876
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:52,400
know kalkorf is challenging you to a

1877
01:04:55,750 --> 01:04:53,839
debate

1878
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:55,760
and and he's saying that you refused to

1879
01:05:00,309 --> 01:04:57,280
debate him about roswell

1880
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:00,319
on this show i i've never heard about it

1881
01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:02,160
uh so rob mccall i got in contact with

1882
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:04,000
rob mcconnell and we set up a debate

1883
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:05,119
we were going to do a debate it was

1884
01:05:07,990 --> 01:05:06,319
going to be a three-hour debate i would

1885
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:08,000
have an hour

1886
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:11,920
of us would be on for the last hour

1887
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,680
talking about it and i'm paint making

1888
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:17,280
notes of what i want to say and i've got

1889
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:18,880
notes here and i'm making pulling all

1890
01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:20,559
the information out so i've got it at my

1891
01:05:25,190 --> 01:05:22,000
hand so i don't have to say oh the name

1892
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:25,200
escapes me at the moment sure yeah at my

1893
01:05:28,470 --> 01:05:26,319
fingertips

1894
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,480
and uh my wife keeps saying what are you

1895
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:30,079
and rob going to talk about for three

1896
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:31,200
hours

1897
01:05:34,309 --> 01:05:32,400
she doesn't believe corps is going to

1898
01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:34,319
show up

1899
01:05:39,029 --> 01:05:37,200
and we get down we're within hours of

1900
01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:39,039
the debate starting four or five hours

1901
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:40,079
of the debate starting

1902
01:05:43,750 --> 01:05:42,240
and i get a note from rob mcconnell cal

1903
01:05:46,309 --> 01:05:43,760
has pulled out

1904
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:46,319
he's now off on some super super super

1905
01:05:49,670 --> 01:05:47,920
secret terrorist mission and he can't

1906
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:49,680
participate in the debate he didn't show

1907
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,559
up

1908
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:52,720
oh and actually he's monitoring things

1909
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:54,640
from the facebook live chat he says now

1910
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:56,000
he's lying about the debate it was

1911
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:57,599
canceled because of death threats i

1912
01:06:00,870 --> 01:05:58,799
offered to do it

1913
01:06:02,150 --> 01:06:00,880
again and that offer still stands well

1914
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:02,160
there we go i see cal

1915
01:06:06,950 --> 01:06:05,760
is now that's that's completely untrue

1916
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:06,960
carolyn you know it well

1917
01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:08,960
i'll give you both guys you know you

1918
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,640
both have an open door here

1919
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:12,319
you know and listen i just want to say

1920
01:06:16,230 --> 01:06:14,720
that i like and respect both of you guys

1921
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:16,240
for different reasons so

1922
01:06:19,510 --> 01:06:17,520
you know i don't like to see you

1923
01:06:20,470 --> 01:06:19,520
disagree so strongly with each other

1924
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:20,480
especially

1925
01:06:25,589 --> 01:06:23,520
for so many years you know but you know

1926
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:25,599
if you want to if you want to get it get

1927
01:06:28,870 --> 01:06:26,799
it over and done with

1928
01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:28,880
we can have a nice talk here and i'll

1929
01:06:31,829 --> 01:06:30,000
just moderate

1930
01:06:33,349 --> 01:06:31,839
time and you know i thought it was i

1931
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:33,359
thought it was over and done with years

1932
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:34,960
ago

1933
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,880
you know and then i find out he's on

1934
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:38,400
your program

1935
01:06:44,230 --> 01:06:42,400
calling me a liar you know um

1936
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:44,240
so i just uh i just thought you know

1937
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,920
let's let's talk about these things he

1938
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:47,760
calls all the witnesses liars uh he

1939
01:06:49,750 --> 01:06:49,119
hasn't talked to him sure some of them

1940
01:06:53,109 --> 01:06:49,760
are liars

1941
01:06:55,190 --> 01:06:53,119
i agree i've exposed them myself

1942
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:55,200
uh jesse martial and i hesitate to say

1943
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:56,799
it but jessie marcel

1944
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:00,079
senior had had a tendency to

1945
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:03,680
embellish things um

1946
01:07:07,349 --> 01:07:05,520
and and i think part of it came out of

1947
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:07,359
the the uh bob pratt

1948
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:12,160
interview that that was done in um

1949
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,720
1978 with marcel the first really long

1950
01:07:19,750 --> 01:07:16,559
form interview we've got the transcript

1951
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:19,760
from it but the the transcript notes are

1952
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:21,119
very difficult to read because it's like

1953
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:23,039
one eight page paragraph

1954
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:25,119
with little insertions here and there

1955
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:26,240
and there's one place where if you

1956
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,920
insert a comma you change the meaning of

1957
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:29,520
the sentence completely

1958
01:07:34,950 --> 01:07:34,079
um marcel was talking about how on his

1959
01:07:36,549 --> 01:07:34,960
third mission

1960
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:36,559
mission in the south pacific his

1961
01:07:39,589 --> 01:07:37,920
airplane was shot down and they had to

1962
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:39,599
bail out

1963
01:07:46,230 --> 01:07:43,119
and and pratt says

1964
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:46,240
everybody survive and the answer written

1965
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:47,039
in there is

1966
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:50,240
all but one crashed into the mountain

1967
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:51,839
and so you're saying well then marcel

1968
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:53,280
and one other guy survived he's not

1969
01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:54,720
saying he's a lone survivor

1970
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:56,880
marcel another guy survived but if you

1971
01:08:02,630 --> 01:07:59,039
prove it put it um

1972
01:08:05,029 --> 01:08:02,640
put a comment there a survive

1973
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:05,039
changes the whole context yeah well one

1974
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:06,799
guy crashed in the mountain and died so

1975
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:09,119
it changes the concept contact

1976
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:11,920
marcel said that he had five air medals

1977
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:12,319
which

1978
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:16,239
um and marcel stated it could not have

1979
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:18,000
been from this world

1980
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,679
yes he did by its weight by the way it's

1981
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:21,359
marcel with one l but

1982
01:08:27,749 --> 01:08:24,560
who's okay uh but but

1983
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,759
um you know if you go and you read linda

1984
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:29,520
carley's book about

1985
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:31,839
her interview uh it's uh for the sake of

1986
01:08:42,630 --> 01:08:33,759
my country here interview

1987
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:45,430
her four hours interview of with marcel

1988
01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:47,279
and there's one point where he's talking

1989
01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:48,719
he begins to talk about how he had

1990
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:50,560
performed an operation

1991
01:08:55,990 --> 01:08:53,759
on a guy uh because the surgeon wasn't

1992
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:56,000
available and they did it over the radio

1993
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:57,839
and his wife interrupts and says oh not

1994
01:09:01,749 --> 01:08:59,040
that story again

1995
01:09:02,149 --> 01:09:01,759
like she didn't even yeah that's crazy

1996
01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:02,159
yeah

1997
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:04,000
but he said he had five air medals we

1998
01:09:08,709 --> 01:09:05,440
could only document meant

1999
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:08,719
two and and to kind of put into

2000
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:11,279
perspective i have 41.

2001
01:09:14,470 --> 01:09:13,839
but in in vietnam we got an air medal

2002
01:09:16,550 --> 01:09:14,480
for every

2003
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,560
25 hours of combat assault flight time

2004
01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:18,880
and one for every 50 hours and

2005
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:20,799
then once in a while we got air metals

2006
01:09:23,430 --> 01:09:22,080
for valve i got two air middles for

2007
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,440
valor as well so i got like

2008
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:25,440
i got the first oakley cluster like

2009
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:26,880
three times

2010
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:30,640
um so and so i've got 41 total air metal

2011
01:09:34,070 --> 01:09:31,920
so uh

2012
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:34,080
you know him having five dresses your

2013
01:09:37,829 --> 01:09:36,159
dress uniform must look great though you

2014
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:37,839
got that hole well you only wear one and

2015
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:38,400
then the

2016
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:40,239
the air metal you've got a little 41 on

2017
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:42,239
it and a v for the the valor thing

2018
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:47,440
oh cool when i was in rotc

2019
01:09:51,749 --> 01:09:49,920
we had a dining out so we're in dress

2020
01:09:52,870 --> 01:09:51,759
uniforms and we can wear our medals if

2021
01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:52,880
we have any

2022
01:09:56,390 --> 01:09:54,960
so i'm one of the people of a vietnam

2023
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:56,400
veteran that happened

2024
01:09:59,669 --> 01:09:58,000
my friend bob cornett who i mentioned

2025
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:59,679
earlier there was a guy at the head

2026
01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:01,280
table and he's looking down in his metal

2027
01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:03,440
he's looking at mine he's looking at me

2028
01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:05,040
and he's trying to figure out how this

2029
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:07,760
how this rotc cadet could have all these

2030
01:10:11,189 --> 01:10:10,080
mills but i've been to vietnam so that

2031
01:10:12,630 --> 01:10:11,199
was how i did it

2032
01:10:14,830 --> 01:10:12,640
yeah you did things a little backwards

2033
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,840
rotc after you were already

2034
01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:16,400
flying well no i was i was a ward

2035
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:18,400
officer first and as a ward officer and

2036
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:18,719
you

2037
01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:22,480
but i only had to go for two years

2038
01:10:26,630 --> 01:10:23,840
i didn't have to take the stupid summer

2039
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:26,640
camp thing um and so i graduated

2040
01:10:30,310 --> 01:10:28,960
when i after we graduated i got i was

2041
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:30,320
commissioned in the air force as a

2042
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:31,840
second lieutenant

2043
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:34,320
so um sure when somebody asked about

2044
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:37,120
this tony bergelia

2045
01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:41,040
uh tony is a nice guy um

2046
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:44,239
he's a bit over the top um

2047
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:47,360
he's very tenacious in his research

2048
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:51,920
um yeah i like tony he's a good guy he

2049
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:53,040
he works very hard i

2050
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:56,159
i think he's a tad bit credulous he

2051
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:57,440
accepts some things that

2052
01:11:01,510 --> 01:10:59,760
did he and i argue about well we can

2053
01:11:03,030 --> 01:11:01,520
look at the roswell slides thing and

2054
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:03,040
again you go to my blog and you just

2055
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:04,880
type in roswell and by the way i just

2056
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:06,480
wanted to mention that uh

2057
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:08,800
i remember the roswell slides and i

2058
01:11:13,430 --> 01:11:10,239
remember saying

2059
01:11:17,189 --> 01:11:13,440
this is not going to end well and i

2060
01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:17,199
i caught a quote from you saying exactly

2061
01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:17,679
that

2062
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,440
this is not going to end well

2063
01:11:25,110 --> 01:11:23,440
a lot of incredible people got tied up

2064
01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:25,120
in that richard dolan

2065
01:11:29,430 --> 01:11:27,760
and don schmidt and and many others got

2066
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:29,440
tied up

2067
01:11:32,950 --> 01:11:31,840
yeah the roswell slides were another

2068
01:11:35,590 --> 01:11:32,960
jaime moussan

2069
01:11:36,229 --> 01:11:35,600
fake alien garbage well no it really it

2070
01:11:39,430 --> 01:11:36,239
really

2071
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:39,440
it started with don schmidt and tom

2072
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:40,480
carey

2073
01:11:47,350 --> 01:11:44,159
okay and and um

2074
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:47,360
they got they got on to that and then

2075
01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:51,280
tony got involved in it and um

2076
01:11:56,229 --> 01:11:54,239
very tenacious in his research i said to

2077
01:11:57,830 --> 01:11:56,239
tom i was i it was like

2078
01:11:59,350 --> 01:11:57,840
months before the thing came out and

2079
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,360
i've got a couple of books on science

2080
01:12:03,270 --> 01:12:01,199
fiction movies and things like that

2081
01:12:04,709 --> 01:12:03,280
and uh i went through there looking to

2082
01:12:05,910 --> 01:12:04,719
see if there was anything like that that

2083
01:12:07,669 --> 01:12:05,920
would appeared in a science fiction

2084
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:07,679
movie in the 1940s and there really

2085
01:12:10,149 --> 01:12:08,320
wasn't

2086
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:10,159
in the 1940s if you had an alien they

2087
01:12:12,790 --> 01:12:11,760
basically were human dressed in silly

2088
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,800
costumes

2089
01:12:16,070 --> 01:12:14,880
yeah yeah the graves didn't come till

2090
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:16,080
later yeah

2091
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:20,400
and i said adam said to tom i said

2092
01:12:24,310 --> 01:12:21,840
the only thing i think of i said do you

2093
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:24,320
think it could be a mummy

2094
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:26,960
and he said no we've looked at mummies

2095
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:27,760
and i'm thinking

2096
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,080
you're looking for a specific mummy and

2097
01:12:36,470 --> 01:12:32,239
they couldn't find it

2098
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:36,480
and then within 48 hours of the

2099
01:12:41,110 --> 01:12:38,800
presentation in mexico city they put up

2100
01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:41,120
a better scan than we were working with

2101
01:12:45,430 --> 01:12:41,840
on the mummy

2102
01:12:47,110 --> 01:12:45,440
and it was found the mummy was found

2103
01:12:49,270 --> 01:12:47,120
yeah it all fell apart pretty fast i

2104
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:49,280
remember the money was found

2105
01:12:54,870 --> 01:12:52,640
the picture was taken in um

2106
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:54,880
mesa verde the museum at mesa verde and

2107
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:56,800
then the the mummy had been moved after

2108
01:13:01,189 --> 01:12:58,239
that to

2109
01:13:03,510 --> 01:13:01,199
montezuma's castle and i think the mummy

2110
01:13:06,950 --> 01:13:03,520
eventually was returned to

2111
01:13:08,709 --> 01:13:06,960
the um the the tribe

2112
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:08,719
yeah it was interred actually it was

2113
01:13:13,669 --> 01:13:10,400
very yeah at some point

2114
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:13,679
at some point the one thing i want to

2115
01:13:18,790 --> 01:13:14,800
say about tony

2116
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:18,800
is he was so upset by

2117
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:22,640
um the exploitation of this poor

2118
01:13:27,830 --> 01:13:24,560
unfortunate child that had died

2119
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:27,840
800 years earlier that he he made a

2120
01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:30,400
sizable donation to the tribe

2121
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:33,679
as a way of of sort of um you know

2122
01:13:38,790 --> 01:13:37,280
apologizing for being involved in

2123
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:38,800
the desecration of the of the poor

2124
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:40,000
unfortunate child and i'm thinking you

2125
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:41,920
know it's a poor kid

2126
01:13:45,030 --> 01:13:43,360
you know it's just a horrible horrible

2127
01:13:48,390 --> 01:13:45,040
thing um

2128
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,400
tom wanted to believe so badly that that

2129
01:13:53,590 --> 01:13:50,400
even after it blew up

2130
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:53,600
he he just would not let go

2131
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:55,679
tom or i'm sorry don had called me and

2132
01:14:00,070 --> 01:13:57,360
said what can i do

2133
01:14:01,669 --> 01:14:00,080
i said admit it immediately yeah and i

2134
01:14:03,669 --> 01:14:01,679
want to say to his credit i interviewed

2135
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:03,679
him once and talked about this with him

2136
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:05,840
and i thought you know people people

2137
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:07,920
really went after him people were pissed

2138
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:10,960
and and you know to his credit he said

2139
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:12,880
here's what happened here's why i was

2140
01:14:17,830 --> 01:14:15,360
taken in as soon as i got the truth

2141
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:17,840
i i reversed my position and i you know

2142
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:19,360
i'm sorry it happened i'm moving forward

2143
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:20,159
with research

2144
01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:22,400
these things i think i think you know i

2145
01:14:25,270 --> 01:14:24,400
think it took well don's first reaction

2146
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:25,280
was that it was

2147
01:14:32,470 --> 01:14:30,000
the skeptics were creating this problem

2148
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:32,480
with reading the the the placard finally

2149
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:33,199
was decoded

2150
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:35,280
it was a scan that had been put up on

2151
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:36,239
the internet by

2152
01:14:41,189 --> 01:14:39,120
um richard dolan as a matter of fact

2153
01:14:42,149 --> 01:14:41,199
after the presentation in new mexico in

2154
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:42,159
new mexico in mexico

2155
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:44,480
city they put a scan up on the internet

2156
01:14:48,470 --> 01:14:46,080
a much better scan

2157
01:14:49,669 --> 01:14:48,480
and within hours a number of people have

2158
01:14:53,669 --> 01:14:49,679
read

2159
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:53,679
what it said so they knew it wasn't a

2160
01:14:58,390 --> 01:14:56,719
so they knew it was was not an alien

2161
01:15:00,070 --> 01:14:58,400
creature that had been recovered and i

2162
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:00,080
think it was 1897

2163
01:15:03,990 --> 01:15:02,480
at mesa verde and it was in a museum

2164
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:04,000
around the mesa verde area i forget the

2165
01:15:06,790 --> 01:15:05,199
name of the museum at the time

2166
01:15:08,790 --> 01:15:06,800
but you can use it when when they

2167
01:15:10,709 --> 01:15:08,800
compared other pictures from that museum

2168
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:10,719
you can see the the pattern the tile

2169
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:12,080
pattern on the floor when you saw the

2170
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:13,840
full picture you can see other displays

2171
01:15:17,110 --> 01:15:14,640
other

2172
01:15:18,870 --> 01:15:17,120
exhibits as well of the placards so it

2173
01:15:19,430 --> 01:15:18,880
became very clear what what had happened

2174
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:19,440
there

2175
01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:21,920
but but to tony's credit the moment he

2176
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:23,520
found out

2177
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:26,880
what it was he renounced it immediately

2178
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:30,400
sizable nation right yeah so so

2179
01:15:34,550 --> 01:15:32,640
he tends he tends to be shall we say

2180
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:34,560
overly enthusiastic

2181
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:37,440
on some things but he does i suffer from

2182
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:39,600
confirmation bias myself like

2183
01:15:42,790 --> 01:15:41,440
i i want to believe in the alien

2184
01:15:44,709 --> 01:15:42,800
hypothesis so

2185
01:15:46,229 --> 01:15:44,719
there are stories that i hear that i

2186
01:15:48,149 --> 01:15:46,239
just want to believe

2187
01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:48,159
and but then i have to be you know a

2188
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:49,520
little more

2189
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:51,440
discerning sometimes when i get the

2190
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:52,719
whole story and

2191
01:15:56,709 --> 01:15:54,560
and let it go there's another excellent

2192
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:56,719
question here for you kevin uh was the

2193
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:58,080
weather balloon explanation and

2194
01:16:02,470 --> 01:15:59,280
demonstration

2195
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:02,480
a pr stunt to try to divert attention

2196
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:05,199
oh absolutely absolutely there was

2197
01:16:07,750 --> 01:16:05,760
nothing

2198
01:16:09,910 --> 01:16:07,760
the the mogul stuff going on in new

2199
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,920
mexico and charles moore told me at one

2200
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:11,440
point you know it really wasn't project

2201
01:16:13,990 --> 01:16:12,800
mogul down here it was the new york

2202
01:16:15,990 --> 01:16:14,000
university

2203
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:16,000
uh balloon constant level balloon

2204
01:16:19,030 --> 01:16:17,199
experiment

2205
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:19,040
and he said we didn't even know the name

2206
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:20,960
of the project mogul down here when we

2207
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:22,159
were doing it and i'm thinking

2208
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:23,760
you know dr curry's diary that was

2209
01:16:27,510 --> 01:16:25,840
written in 1947 actually uses the mogul

2210
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:27,520
name three times so i think you did know

2211
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:28,320
it

2212
01:16:34,390 --> 01:16:32,719
attention you know they would

2213
01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:34,400
they suddenly say well it's just this

2214
01:16:37,030 --> 01:16:36,000
this weather balloon thing and

2215
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:37,040
everybody's looking at the weather

2216
01:16:40,709 --> 01:16:39,440
balloon in 1947 they said okay

2217
01:16:42,149 --> 01:16:40,719
and they went away they couldn't find

2218
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:42,159
marcel because he's in fort worth they

2219
01:16:44,870 --> 01:16:43,600
couldn't find brazil because he's at the

2220
01:16:46,790 --> 01:16:44,880
ranch and they don't have phones and he

2221
01:16:48,070 --> 01:16:46,800
didn't have a way of contacting him

2222
01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:48,080
sheriff wouldn't talk to him sheriff

2223
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:49,840
wilcox was saying i'm working with the

2224
01:16:53,430 --> 01:16:51,679
boys out at the base there um

2225
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:53,440
you'll call them if you want information

2226
01:16:56,229 --> 01:16:54,880
the story just died you know well we had

2227
01:16:57,990 --> 01:16:56,239
a flying saucer but here it is it's a

2228
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:58,000
weather balloon let's go home

2229
01:17:02,550 --> 01:17:00,159
and in nineteen it stayed that way until

2230
01:17:03,030 --> 01:17:02,560
the uh until the late 70s really right

2231
01:17:06,149 --> 01:17:03,040
it just

2232
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:06,159
oh you you go back well actually

2233
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:09,520
not quite because uh in 1966 frank

2234
01:17:13,430 --> 01:17:11,360
edwards did a book called flying sausage

2235
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:13,440
serious business and he has a small

2236
01:17:16,070 --> 01:17:13,920
quick

2237
01:17:17,350 --> 01:17:16,080
paragraph um i think it's called picking

2238
01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:17,360
up the pieces

2239
01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:19,120
i think it's chapter four and he talks

2240
01:17:21,430 --> 01:17:20,640
about the roswell case in the first part

2241
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:21,440
of that

2242
01:17:27,030 --> 01:17:24,000
he gets practically everything wrong

2243
01:17:28,390 --> 01:17:27,040
other than it was roswell new mexico

2244
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:28,400
the air force explained it away as a

2245
01:17:30,870 --> 01:17:30,239
weather balloon with a tin he says with

2246
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:30,880
a pie tin

2247
01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:34,640
it was a raid one radar reflector but

2248
01:17:39,270 --> 01:17:36,640
that was 1966

2249
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:39,280
and uh so it's it did leak out

2250
01:17:42,550 --> 01:17:40,960
periodically little bits and pieces of

2251
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:42,560
it um

2252
01:17:45,830 --> 01:17:44,560
ted bloacher did a thing where he

2253
01:17:47,910 --> 01:17:45,840
collected a lot of the newspaper

2254
01:17:49,830 --> 01:17:47,920
articles from 1947

2255
01:17:51,430 --> 01:17:49,840
and there is a segment that deals with

2256
01:17:54,229 --> 01:17:51,440
roswell as it being a hoax

2257
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:54,239
of being a weather balloon and so it did

2258
01:17:57,669 --> 01:17:55,760
remain pretty much that way everybody

2259
01:18:01,110 --> 01:17:57,679
ignored it until jesse marcel came out

2260
01:18:03,669 --> 01:18:01,120
and started talking about it in 1978

2261
01:18:04,790 --> 01:18:03,679
and and then then it ran from the we ran

2262
01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:04,800
with it from there

2263
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:07,920
but then you get to 1995 and the air

2264
01:18:11,270 --> 01:18:08,960
force comes out

2265
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:11,280
with their explanation and they said you

2266
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:13,920
know back in 1947 it wasn't a weather

2267
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:15,520
balloon we lied about it then

2268
01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:18,560
we've done this extensive extensive

2269
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:20,400
investigation

2270
01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:23,520
and we've discovered it was a weather

2271
01:18:26,149 --> 01:18:24,719
balloon

2272
01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:26,159
we just give it another name say it was

2273
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:28,000
highly classified what was going on in

2274
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:29,840
new mexico was not classified

2275
01:18:34,630 --> 01:18:32,480
the purpose what they wanted to do is

2276
01:18:36,390 --> 01:18:34,640
create a constant level balloon

2277
01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:36,400
and place it in what they postulated was

2278
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:38,080
an acoustical level

2279
01:18:41,110 --> 01:18:39,520
in the atmosphere and they postulated

2280
01:18:43,430 --> 01:18:41,120
there's an acoustical level i get about

2281
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,440
200 fathoms down in the oceans

2282
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:45,600
where sound travels amazing distances

2283
01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:46,960
and they they wanted to put this

2284
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:48,719
constant level balloon in this

2285
01:18:53,669 --> 01:18:50,400
acoustical level so they could listen

2286
01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:53,679
for soviet detonations of atomic weapons

2287
01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:55,520
they i i don't think they ever did it i

2288
01:18:59,910 --> 01:18:57,600
don't i think spy planes came in and

2289
01:19:01,110 --> 01:18:59,920
kind of ruined the idea for a balloon

2290
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:01,120
but that's what they were doing then

2291
01:19:06,070 --> 01:19:03,440
they then they uh

2292
01:19:08,229 --> 01:19:06,080
the day after i said july 10th in the

2293
01:19:09,750 --> 01:19:08,239
alamogordo news there's a picture of one

2294
01:19:11,430 --> 01:19:09,760
of these arrays

2295
01:19:12,950 --> 01:19:11,440
laid out on the on the ground and

2296
01:19:14,950 --> 01:19:12,960
talking about what they were doing in

2297
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:14,960
new mexico and how this array was

2298
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:16,800
responsible for the

2299
01:19:25,350 --> 01:19:23,360
found by mac brazil

2300
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:25,360
that were military people would have

2301
01:19:28,470 --> 01:19:26,400
been familiar

2302
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:28,480
with a weather balloon and a radar

2303
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:29,520
reflector right

2304
01:19:32,790 --> 01:19:31,840
i mean well not everybody but some of

2305
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,800
them would have been and what i

2306
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:34,640
understand is on operation crossroad

2307
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:35,440
which was the

2308
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:38,080
atomic testing being done at the bikini

2309
01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:40,560
atoll in 1946

2310
01:19:44,149 --> 01:19:42,960
the 509th was responsible for the

2311
01:19:48,149 --> 01:19:44,159
logistical support

2312
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:48,159
to take rewind targets and

2313
01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:50,960
neoprene weather balloons to to there so

2314
01:19:53,430 --> 01:19:52,080
people would have been familiar with

2315
01:19:55,350 --> 01:19:53,440
them i mean it's a weather balloon

2316
01:19:56,470 --> 01:19:55,360
but brazil the the thing that's

2317
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:56,480
interesting is you have you have the

2318
01:20:00,709 --> 01:19:57,360
july 9th

2319
01:20:02,149 --> 01:20:00,719
um newspaper which is their

2320
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:02,159
their interview with brazilian talking

2321
01:20:05,350 --> 01:20:03,600
about how brazil said well it was you

2322
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:05,360
know sticks and rubber and twine and

2323
01:20:09,189 --> 01:20:06,880
this sort of thing

2324
01:20:10,229 --> 01:20:09,199
and the skeptic sees on that says well

2325
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:10,239
you know strange

2326
01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:12,960
strange debris for a interstellar craft

2327
01:20:17,669 --> 01:20:14,400
and i'm thinking yeah pretty much

2328
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:17,679
pretty strange but then they always

2329
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:19,679
ignore the

2330
01:20:22,709 --> 01:20:21,120
paragraph toward the end of the story

2331
01:20:23,669 --> 01:20:22,719
where says brazil says you know i found

2332
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:23,679
weather balloons on

2333
01:20:27,910 --> 01:20:25,440
weather observation devices on two other

2334
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:27,920
occasions this was nothing like those

2335
01:20:31,350 --> 01:20:30,800
except project mogul was exactly like

2336
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:31,360
those

2337
01:20:35,430 --> 01:20:33,600
that's what it was made up of he would

2338
01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:35,440
have recognized the balloon

2339
01:20:39,189 --> 01:20:37,679
marcel didn't recognize it cavett who

2340
01:20:40,229 --> 01:20:39,199
was the air the counterintelligence

2341
01:20:41,750 --> 01:20:40,239
officer there

2342
01:20:44,390 --> 01:20:41,760
told colonel richard weaver who did the

2343
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:44,400
investigation for the air force in 1999

2344
01:20:48,070 --> 01:20:46,800
in the 1990s colonel weaver nice fella

2345
01:20:49,669 --> 01:20:48,080
talked to him a number of times had him

2346
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:49,679
on my radio show if you want to listen

2347
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:51,360
to colonel weaver's interview go to my

2348
01:20:54,149 --> 01:20:52,560
blog and

2349
01:20:56,629 --> 01:20:54,159
type in colonel weaver and you can

2350
01:20:58,390 --> 01:20:56,639
listen to the two-hour interview with um

2351
01:21:00,070 --> 01:20:58,400
colonel weaver about this and i think

2352
01:21:02,310 --> 01:21:00,080
you'll find some interesting things

2353
01:21:03,669 --> 01:21:02,320
he still maintains its project mogul i

2354
01:21:04,950 --> 01:21:03,679
don't think it was

2355
01:21:06,709 --> 01:21:04,960
i don't think there's a terrestrial

2356
01:21:09,910 --> 01:21:06,719
explanation for it

2357
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:09,920
but the weather balloon explanation was

2358
01:21:13,270 --> 01:21:11,840
the cover story and it just simply does

2359
01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:13,280
not work

2360
01:21:16,629 --> 01:21:15,440
there is nothing that explains the

2361
01:21:19,110 --> 01:21:16,639
roswell debris

2362
01:21:20,790 --> 01:21:19,120
currently in terrestrial terms something

2363
01:21:21,430 --> 01:21:20,800
may be found later on i don't know what

2364
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:21,440
it would be

2365
01:21:25,590 --> 01:21:23,360
but something may come up and say yep

2366
01:21:27,590 --> 01:21:25,600
that's what it was we're all done now

2367
01:21:29,030 --> 01:21:27,600
that's my favorite my favorite part of

2368
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:29,040
that uh air force

2369
01:21:32,470 --> 01:21:31,440
report and it's roswell case closed

2370
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:32,480
really is

2371
01:21:36,030 --> 01:21:34,719
the the explanation they come up with

2372
01:21:38,229 --> 01:21:36,040
for the bodies was

2373
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:38,239
anthropomorphic dummies that were

2374
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:40,960
dropped 10 years or so after the

2375
01:21:47,350 --> 01:21:44,159
47 roswell event that they say people

2376
01:21:48,229 --> 01:21:47,360
miss you know misinterpreted it and

2377
01:21:49,629 --> 01:21:48,239
somehow

2378
01:21:52,629 --> 01:21:49,639
they don't know the difference between

2379
01:21:54,950 --> 01:21:52,639
1947 and 1953

2380
01:21:56,229 --> 01:21:54,960
when the when these dummies were dropped

2381
01:21:58,709 --> 01:21:56,239
in these high altitude

2382
01:22:00,149 --> 01:21:58,719
experiments well the anthropomorphic

2383
01:22:01,030 --> 01:22:00,159
dummies looked exactly like what they

2384
01:22:04,229 --> 01:22:01,040
were

2385
01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:04,239
a picture in the report with a guy

2386
01:22:06,629 --> 01:22:05,199
standing with

2387
01:22:08,310 --> 01:22:06,639
them and they're like six feet tall and

2388
01:22:10,470 --> 01:22:08,320
you talked about yeah you talked

2389
01:22:12,070 --> 01:22:10,480
who said they saw they're much smaller

2390
01:22:14,229 --> 01:22:12,080
than that they're not these big robust

2391
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:14,239
things they're much smaller than that

2392
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:17,280
and it simply doesn't work um

2393
01:22:22,870 --> 01:22:21,280
at all the other thing is the guys in

2394
01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:22,880
the new york university guys had gone to

2395
01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:24,960
roswell to elicit their help and

2396
01:22:29,590 --> 01:22:27,760
tracking their balloons and the the

2397
01:22:30,149 --> 01:22:29,600
roswell guys probably pissed them off by

2398
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:30,159
saying

2399
01:22:33,189 --> 01:22:31,760
they were basically too busy with real

2400
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:33,199
work to be worried about what a bunch of

2401
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:38,229
the balloons had cards on them if you

2402
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:40,080
find this let us know and we'll pay you

2403
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:41,520
five bucks

2404
01:22:45,669 --> 01:22:44,719
which uh in 1947 that was a lot of money

2405
01:22:48,550 --> 01:22:45,679
right yeah

2406
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:48,560
nice piece of change um that sort of

2407
01:22:51,830 --> 01:22:48,960
thing

2408
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:51,840
there was one there was one that came

2409
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:52,719
down

2410
01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:54,800
out toward um they called the bottoms of

2411
01:22:58,470 --> 01:22:56,560
flakes they're they're east of roswell

2412
01:22:59,669 --> 01:22:58,480
one of their balloons came down there

2413
01:23:02,709 --> 01:22:59,679
they had um

2414
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:02,719
military equipment from alamogordo

2415
01:23:05,189 --> 01:23:03,920
and they drove out and recovered their

2416
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:05,199
balloon and they realized they were

2417
01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:06,560
getting low on gas they stopped in

2418
01:23:08,950 --> 01:23:07,440
roswell

2419
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:08,960
with this balloon in the back of their

2420
01:23:14,310 --> 01:23:11,199
weapons carrier which is an open bay

2421
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:14,320
type thing to to gas up so they could

2422
01:23:18,709 --> 01:23:16,000
get over to alamogordo

2423
01:23:19,590 --> 01:23:18,719
so then the people would have seen the

2424
01:23:22,229 --> 01:23:19,600
the balloons

2425
01:23:23,430 --> 01:23:22,239
um and the other thing the air force did

2426
01:23:24,870 --> 01:23:23,440
which

2427
01:23:25,990 --> 01:23:24,880
wasn't quite fair well there's there's a

2428
01:23:27,110 --> 01:23:26,000
company a couple of things they do one

2429
01:23:28,950 --> 01:23:27,120
of them was

2430
01:23:31,110 --> 01:23:28,960
sally tatalini who handled some of the

2431
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:31,120
debris that bill brazel had found

2432
01:23:35,110 --> 01:23:34,080
in her affidavit she talks about how it

2433
01:23:36,790 --> 01:23:35,120
some of it being some

2434
01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:36,800
something like stiff lever leather i

2435
01:23:40,229 --> 01:23:38,560
think it was but in the next paragraph

2436
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:40,239
she kind of identifies it more and it

2437
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:42,000
takes it out of the realm of

2438
01:23:46,229 --> 01:23:44,400
of terrestrial materials they leave that

2439
01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:46,239
paragraph out

2440
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:48,239
so that you get the idea was stiff

2441
01:23:51,510 --> 01:23:49,920
leather types material and i thought

2442
01:23:51,990 --> 01:23:51,520
that was kind of underhanded things to

2443
01:23:54,470 --> 01:23:52,000
do

2444
01:23:55,510 --> 01:23:54,480
on the other hand to give colonel weaver

2445
01:23:57,990 --> 01:23:55,520
his do

2446
01:23:59,110 --> 01:23:58,000
he published all of prairie's field

2447
01:24:01,750 --> 01:23:59,120
notes and his

2448
01:24:03,110 --> 01:24:01,760
diaries about the explanation so you go

2449
01:24:05,350 --> 01:24:03,120
through there and you can see where

2450
01:24:06,629 --> 01:24:05,360
it says flight number four the culprit

2451
01:24:09,990 --> 01:24:06,639
the culprit of this

2452
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:10,000
didn't fly it was cancelled uh they

2453
01:24:13,110 --> 01:24:11,440
could not fly at night they could not

2454
01:24:13,590 --> 01:24:13,120
fly the balloons in the daytime because

2455
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:13,600
these

2456
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:15,360
long arrays were a hazard to aerial

2457
01:24:18,149 --> 01:24:17,520
navigation so they did not allow them to

2458
01:24:20,790 --> 01:24:18,159
launch them

2459
01:24:21,750 --> 01:24:20,800
in the dark or it or if it was cloudy

2460
01:24:23,750 --> 01:24:21,760
out

2461
01:24:25,590 --> 01:24:23,760
and so uh flight number four which they

2462
01:24:27,189 --> 01:24:25,600
say is the culprit never flew there's no

2463
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:27,199
there's no documentation for it they

2464
01:24:30,070 --> 01:24:28,719
said they flew a cluster balloons later

2465
01:24:33,510 --> 01:24:30,080
in the day but that's not a

2466
01:24:34,629 --> 01:24:33,520
mogul array and so their explanation

2467
01:24:37,990 --> 01:24:34,639
falls

2468
01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:38,000
never understood about the skeptics

2469
01:24:42,629 --> 01:24:40,880
they they quote the the july ninth

2470
01:24:46,149 --> 01:24:42,639
newspaper article with the

2471
01:24:49,270 --> 01:24:46,159
brazil brazil brazil

2472
01:24:51,910 --> 01:24:49,280
brazil saying that you know it was

2473
01:24:53,510 --> 01:24:51,920
rubber and rubber balloon and all of

2474
01:24:54,470 --> 01:24:53,520
this stuff they quote that as if it's

2475
01:24:55,830 --> 01:24:54,480
gospel

2476
01:24:57,189 --> 01:24:55,840
ignoring the other quote where he says

2477
01:24:59,270 --> 01:24:57,199
well it was nothing like i'd found

2478
01:25:02,790 --> 01:24:59,280
before and so we get to the

2479
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:02,800
creary's diary the guy in charge of the

2480
01:25:06,629 --> 01:25:05,280
operation at alamogordo saying uh you

2481
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:06,639
know the flight was canceled

2482
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:08,159
well we're just going to ignore that and

2483
01:25:11,590 --> 01:25:10,000
we'll postulate that this cluster

2484
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:11,600
balloons they flew later in the day is

2485
01:25:14,950 --> 01:25:12,480
what uh

2486
01:25:16,310 --> 01:25:14,960
what fell but it just it simply doesn't

2487
01:25:18,950 --> 01:25:16,320
work

2488
01:25:19,590 --> 01:25:18,960
yeah i've never liked the either weather

2489
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:19,600
balloon

2490
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:22,800
of

2491
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:26,320
that have been

2492
01:25:31,430 --> 01:25:29,440
involved in this and then also

2493
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:31,440
i wanted to take a moment for you to ask

2494
01:25:33,910 --> 01:25:33,040
you about some of these deathbed

2495
01:25:37,590 --> 01:25:33,920
confessions

2496
01:25:39,430 --> 01:25:37,600
of people uh that have told stories of

2497
01:25:40,470 --> 01:25:39,440
aliens and bodies and what really

2498
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:40,480
happened there

2499
01:25:44,950 --> 01:25:42,880
as they were dying were nearing the end

2500
01:25:47,430 --> 01:25:44,960
of their lives

2501
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:47,440
dutch schmitz got that book uh children

2502
01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:49,520
of roswell which i found fascinating

2503
01:25:52,629 --> 01:25:50,239
because

2504
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:52,639
i just don't see a bunch of people

2505
01:25:55,590 --> 01:25:54,000
nearing death

2506
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:55,600
suddenly deciding that they're going to

2507
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:58,639
start making up stories about aliens

2508
01:26:02,790 --> 01:26:01,040
you know what are you doing with some of

2509
01:26:04,149 --> 01:26:02,800
the deathbed confessions and

2510
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:04,159
things first of all first of all

2511
01:26:07,270 --> 01:26:05,520
technically they're not deathbed

2512
01:26:12,310 --> 01:26:07,280
confessions

2513
01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:12,320
confessing to a crime

2514
01:26:15,750 --> 01:26:14,560
or sure yeah that's a bad term but you

2515
01:26:17,350 --> 01:26:15,760
know near death

2516
01:26:20,830 --> 01:26:17,360
confession yeah i understand i

2517
01:26:23,430 --> 01:26:20,840
understand what you're saying and and

2518
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:23,440
um i i don't i don't i

2519
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:27,120
i can understand a guy um

2520
01:26:32,310 --> 01:26:30,080
and i because back at the turn of the

2521
01:26:34,229 --> 01:26:32,320
last century

2522
01:26:35,830 --> 01:26:34,239
there were 15 guys traveling with

2523
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:35,840
various carnivals around the united

2524
01:26:37,750 --> 01:26:36,480
nates

2525
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:37,760
united states claiming they were the

2526
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:40,320
real jesse james well you know 14 of

2527
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:42,719
them had to be lying

2528
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:44,960
yeah and the 15th was two but that's

2529
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:48,080
another other argument

2530
01:26:52,149 --> 01:26:50,719
so people put themselves into this and

2531
01:26:53,510 --> 01:26:52,159
and there was a lot of publicity about

2532
01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:53,520
the roswell case after

2533
01:26:59,350 --> 01:26:57,360
uh the the first little um

2534
01:27:00,870 --> 01:26:59,360
wave of it in in 1980 when when the

2535
01:27:03,669 --> 01:27:00,880
roswell incident book came out or

2536
01:27:04,229 --> 01:27:03,679
1978 when jesse marcel told a story and

2537
01:27:09,669 --> 01:27:04,239
then

2538
01:27:11,030 --> 01:27:09,679
we all started getting involved in the

2539
01:27:12,310 --> 01:27:11,040
investigations and there was a lot more

2540
01:27:13,669 --> 01:27:12,320
information coming out and i can

2541
01:27:15,750 --> 01:27:13,679
understand people who were

2542
01:27:18,950 --> 01:27:15,760
there in roswell in 1947 plugging

2543
01:27:21,830 --> 01:27:18,960
themselves into the story um

2544
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:21,840
but when you're extremely ill and and

2545
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:23,040
you're about to

2546
01:27:26,709 --> 01:27:26,000
croak which would have been really

2547
01:27:29,750 --> 01:27:26,719
really

2548
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:29,760
not people

2549
01:27:34,709 --> 01:27:33,040
yeah when they're about to croak um

2550
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:34,719
to to to come up with this kind of a

2551
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:36,400
cockamamie story just doesn't make a lot

2552
01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:37,280
of sense

2553
01:27:42,229 --> 01:27:40,719
you know 10 years before you're going to

2554
01:27:43,350 --> 01:27:42,239
die i mean you're not going to realize

2555
01:27:45,270 --> 01:27:43,360
you're going to die in 10 years but i

2556
01:27:48,390 --> 01:27:45,280
mean telling the story to your family at

2557
01:27:51,030 --> 01:27:48,400
some gathering plugging yourself into it

2558
01:27:51,510 --> 01:27:51,040
yeah i got it and and what what bothers

2559
01:27:53,590 --> 01:27:51,520
me

2560
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:53,600
is and one of the reasons we i believe

2561
01:27:56,070 --> 01:27:54,960
frank kaufman and some of these other

2562
01:27:59,750 --> 01:27:56,080
people

2563
01:28:01,270 --> 01:27:59,760
be making up their military careers

2564
01:28:02,790 --> 01:28:01,280
and then i read a book called stolen

2565
01:28:04,709 --> 01:28:02,800
valor and it's about all these

2566
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:04,719
people who claim to be vietnam veterans

2567
01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:10,390
maybe maybe were in the army but didn't

2568
01:28:12,709 --> 01:28:12,159
get to vietnam or weren't even in

2569
01:28:14,229 --> 01:28:12,719
vietnam

2570
01:28:17,669 --> 01:28:14,239
weren't even the military claiming that

2571
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:17,679
they were vietnam veterans for they

2572
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:19,440
could wrap themselves in the glory which

2573
01:28:22,470 --> 01:28:21,520
is why you know i put up the blog with

2574
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:22,480
the pictures and

2575
01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:24,239
and the documentation so i really was a

2576
01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:25,679
vietnam vet i really am a vietnam

2577
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:27,280
veteran i should say

2578
01:28:31,189 --> 01:28:30,159
um but and david rudiak and i got into a

2579
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:31,199
big fight over this

2580
01:28:35,270 --> 01:28:33,600
because there was a survey was taken

2581
01:28:37,030 --> 01:28:35,280
they said it was part of a census survey

2582
01:28:39,669 --> 01:28:37,040
and i'm not sure exactly how this works

2583
01:28:42,790 --> 01:28:39,679
out because it was 1995 as opposed to

2584
01:28:46,070 --> 01:28:42,800
the regular uh

2585
01:28:47,669 --> 01:28:46,080
regular census um but they asked were

2586
01:28:48,470 --> 01:28:47,679
you a vietnam or are you a vietnam

2587
01:28:51,750 --> 01:28:48,480
veteran

2588
01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:51,760
and 13 million people said yes

2589
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:53,280
yeah there wasn't that many vietnam

2590
01:28:57,030 --> 01:28:54,840
veterans right there was like four or

2591
01:28:59,669 --> 01:28:57,040
five they claimed they were

2592
01:29:00,870 --> 01:28:59,679
i think two point eight million two

2593
01:29:03,910 --> 01:29:00,880
point eight and they

2594
01:29:05,350 --> 01:29:03,920
served now they're playing

2595
01:29:06,310 --> 01:29:05,360
yeah now there's another now they're

2596
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:06,320
saying like there's eight hundred and

2597
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:07,600
eighty thousand and i'm thinking wow

2598
01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:09,280
where did everybody go

2599
01:29:14,709 --> 01:29:13,120
um but but uh david rudiak just couldn't

2600
01:29:18,149 --> 01:29:14,719
believe that people would lie about that

2601
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:18,159
and this book stolen valor just details

2602
01:29:21,350 --> 01:29:20,080
all these guys telling their stories and

2603
01:29:24,149 --> 01:29:21,360
the best one is there were there were

2604
01:29:25,750 --> 01:29:24,159
eight guys involved in a um

2605
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:25,760
a support group talking about the

2606
01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:27,360
horrific

2607
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:33,760
the the therapist

2608
01:29:37,110 --> 01:29:35,760
couldn't seem to make an inroads because

2609
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:37,120
every time you'd say something or make a

2610
01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:37,520
comment

2611
01:29:41,350 --> 01:29:38,719
well you can't understand that you were

2612
01:29:44,070 --> 01:29:41,360
never in combat and

2613
01:29:44,870 --> 01:29:44,080
neither were you yeah well no but but

2614
01:29:48,470 --> 01:29:44,880
the thing is

2615
01:29:52,629 --> 01:29:48,480
um there was a green beret captain who

2616
01:29:54,629 --> 01:29:52,639
who uh after he finished his service

2617
01:29:55,990 --> 01:29:54,639
took a master's degree in psychology or

2618
01:29:57,189 --> 01:29:56,000
social work or something so he was

2619
01:30:00,310 --> 01:29:57,199
working there i mean he

2620
01:30:01,910 --> 01:30:00,320
he legitimate hero silver star

2621
01:30:03,350 --> 01:30:01,920
i think two or three tours in vietnam

2622
01:30:06,310 --> 01:30:03,360
all of that stuff i mean

2623
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:06,320
legitimate guy and could prove it so he

2624
01:30:10,790 --> 01:30:08,560
goes down to talk to these guys

2625
01:30:12,229 --> 01:30:10,800
about it and and they're just absolutely

2626
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:12,239
hostile

2627
01:30:15,910 --> 01:30:14,639
and it he comes to find out none of them

2628
01:30:17,669 --> 01:30:15,920
had ever been in vietnam

2629
01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:17,679
they were all me all eight of them were

2630
01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:19,679
making it up geez it's terrible

2631
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:21,520
and you know stolen valor is a huge

2632
01:30:25,510 --> 01:30:22,719
problem

2633
01:30:26,310 --> 01:30:25,520
in the field of ufos i did a big

2634
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:26,320
investigation

2635
01:30:29,350 --> 01:30:28,960
into someone called charles hall who you

2636
01:30:31,430 --> 01:30:29,360
may

2637
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:31,440
have heard about who claimed to work on

2638
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:32,400
a secret base

2639
01:30:37,270 --> 01:30:35,760
with tall white aliens and we went to

2640
01:30:38,629 --> 01:30:37,280
the ends of the earth to try to verify

2641
01:30:40,149 --> 01:30:38,639
his military claims

2642
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:40,159
you're not talking about the rendelsham

2643
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:42,159
forest guy right no no i'm talking about

2644
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:42,960
it

2645
01:30:50,310 --> 01:30:46,560
turns out

2646
01:30:51,750 --> 01:30:50,320
disprove but he claimed that he was in

2647
01:30:52,950 --> 01:30:51,760
the air force and he was a weather

2648
01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:52,960
observer

2649
01:30:58,070 --> 01:30:56,239
and he even has scans in his book of

2650
01:31:01,510 --> 01:30:58,080
like documents but they all

2651
01:31:03,189 --> 01:31:01,520
all the documents are are fake so he was

2652
01:31:05,590 --> 01:31:03,199
never in the air force he was never

2653
01:31:06,629 --> 01:31:05,600
in the class that he claimed he went to

2654
01:31:09,669 --> 01:31:06,639
to become a weather

2655
01:31:12,550 --> 01:31:09,679
observer for the air force and

2656
01:31:13,590 --> 01:31:12,560
so to me if the story starts with i was

2657
01:31:16,149 --> 01:31:13,600
in the air force

2658
01:31:18,310 --> 01:31:16,159
and then i saw aliens well if you can

2659
01:31:20,229 --> 01:31:18,320
pick apart the beginning of the story

2660
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:20,239
that that you were never in the actual

2661
01:31:23,189 --> 01:31:21,520
air force you know

2662
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:23,199
the stories fall apart it's a big

2663
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:24,960
problem and we have all these super

2664
01:31:28,790 --> 01:31:26,960
soldiers you know

2665
01:31:29,990 --> 01:31:28,800
that claim they were in the army and

2666
01:31:32,709 --> 01:31:30,000
then they got recruited

2667
01:31:34,709 --> 01:31:32,719
into the secret space thing and yeah

2668
01:31:36,229 --> 01:31:34,719
there's so many frauds out there

2669
01:31:38,070 --> 01:31:36,239
i was i was always going to put on my

2670
01:31:39,590 --> 01:31:38,080
uniform go to wright patterson air force

2671
01:31:42,390 --> 01:31:39,600
base and have

2672
01:31:44,070 --> 01:31:42,400
with with a gopro camera and say can i

2673
01:31:46,470 --> 01:31:44,080
have the access to the blue room

2674
01:31:48,470 --> 01:31:46,480
yeah i came from in there and i saw all

2675
01:31:50,709 --> 01:31:48,480
the bodies what the hell's the problem

2676
01:31:52,070 --> 01:31:50,719
yeah you know i that that leads me to

2677
01:31:53,510 --> 01:31:52,080
another one of my questions now i

2678
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:53,520
realize you're gonna have to speculate

2679
01:31:57,590 --> 01:31:54,880
on this but

2680
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,600
uh you have spent so many hours

2681
01:32:01,510 --> 01:31:59,679
researching interviewing people

2682
01:32:02,790 --> 01:32:01,520
and you have a military background i

2683
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:02,800
want to ask you if

2684
01:32:06,070 --> 01:32:04,800
if an alien spacecraft really

2685
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:06,080
crash-landed

2686
01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,800
and bodies were recovered where do you

2687
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:10,639
think they ended up because i think they

2688
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:13,199
all went to wright patterson

2689
01:32:18,629 --> 01:32:16,560
you'd be wrong really

2690
01:32:19,669 --> 01:32:18,639
actually i don't have to speculate about

2691
01:32:21,910 --> 01:32:19,679
where they went because

2692
01:32:23,430 --> 01:32:21,920
general exxon told us where they went

2693
01:32:24,870 --> 01:32:23,440
general exxon was assigned to

2694
01:32:26,870 --> 01:32:24,880
wright-patterson air force base in july

2695
01:32:28,790 --> 01:32:26,880
of 1947 he was a lieutenant colonel at

2696
01:32:33,110 --> 01:32:28,800
the time he was attending the

2697
01:32:35,189 --> 01:32:33,120
um air institute of technology

2698
01:32:37,189 --> 01:32:35,199
which was a master's degree program for

2699
01:32:38,310 --> 01:32:37,199
for officers in the air force the army

2700
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:38,320
air forces

2701
01:32:42,790 --> 01:32:40,960
and he was at the base when these things

2702
01:32:46,390 --> 01:32:42,800
happened and he told us

2703
01:32:48,310 --> 01:32:46,400
don and me and we have it on tape so uh

2704
01:32:49,750 --> 01:32:48,320
he said that the the bodies did go into

2705
01:32:51,510 --> 01:32:49,760
wright patterson but one of them went to

2706
01:32:52,790 --> 01:32:51,520
lowry air force base or lowery army

2707
01:32:55,350 --> 01:32:52,800
airfield

2708
01:32:57,030 --> 01:32:55,360
uh if that's what it was called in 1947

2709
01:32:58,310 --> 01:32:57,040
because that's where the army's mortuary

2710
01:33:00,229 --> 01:32:58,320
service was

2711
01:33:01,990 --> 01:33:00,239
and that one was sent there to th so

2712
01:33:03,270 --> 01:33:02,000
they could work on

2713
01:33:04,629 --> 01:33:03,280
finding the best way to preserve the

2714
01:33:05,110 --> 01:33:04,639
bodies because you've got to now a

2715
01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:05,120
unique

2716
01:33:08,629 --> 01:33:07,040
biological sample and you're probably

2717
01:33:10,310 --> 01:33:08,639
not going to get any more so you want to

2718
01:33:12,310 --> 01:33:10,320
preserve it as best you can

2719
01:33:14,470 --> 01:33:12,320
so he told us that that they went to

2720
01:33:16,870 --> 01:33:14,480
right right field

2721
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:16,880
then they went to one of them went to um

2722
01:33:19,590 --> 01:33:17,840
lowry

2723
01:33:22,149 --> 01:33:19,600
and somebody else suggested one of them

2724
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:22,159
had gone to

2725
01:33:30,149 --> 01:33:26,320
mcdill i think there's a big aeromedical

2726
01:33:31,430 --> 01:33:30,159
center there um now at this point we

2727
01:33:32,790 --> 01:33:31,440
then now we now we get into the

2728
01:33:34,310 --> 01:33:32,800
speculation because people have told us

2729
01:33:35,990 --> 01:33:34,320
a lot of wild stuff there's supposedly

2730
01:33:38,070 --> 01:33:36,000
an island in the pacific

2731
01:33:39,270 --> 01:33:38,080
that's that's run by the military and

2732
01:33:41,350 --> 01:33:39,280
that's where all the stuff is stored

2733
01:33:42,950 --> 01:33:41,360
because you can't get to it easily

2734
01:33:45,830 --> 01:33:42,960
you've got to know where the island is

2735
01:33:47,590 --> 01:33:45,840
and they'll see you coming

2736
01:33:50,310 --> 01:33:47,600
type of thing they're like trying to

2737
01:33:53,430 --> 01:33:50,320
sneak up on area 51.

2738
01:33:56,229 --> 01:33:53,440
so um i just i simply just don't know

2739
01:33:56,870 --> 01:33:56,239
um at this point but but for what we

2740
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:56,880
were told

2741
01:34:01,270 --> 01:33:58,719
kaufman told us a different story that's

2742
01:34:02,390 --> 01:34:01,280
that some of them went to

2743
01:34:04,470 --> 01:34:02,400
right field and someone went to

2744
01:34:06,310 --> 01:34:04,480
washington dc but we can't believe

2745
01:34:06,629 --> 01:34:06,320
anything kaufman told us so we ignore

2746
01:34:08,390 --> 01:34:06,639
that

2747
01:34:10,709 --> 01:34:08,400
go with what general exxon said i think

2748
01:34:12,629 --> 01:34:10,719
that's a more reliable source

2749
01:34:14,709 --> 01:34:12,639
yeah and another point i wanted to ask

2750
01:34:15,030 --> 01:34:14,719
about is exactly that there have been

2751
01:34:17,830 --> 01:34:15,040
some

2752
01:34:19,510 --> 01:34:17,840
extremely high-ranking military officers

2753
01:34:21,030 --> 01:34:19,520
involved in one form or another in the

2754
01:34:23,830 --> 01:34:21,040
roswell event

2755
01:34:24,790 --> 01:34:23,840
that have made some pretty startling

2756
01:34:27,270 --> 01:34:24,800
admissions

2757
01:34:29,189 --> 01:34:27,280
and and doesn't that lend credibility to

2758
01:34:31,830 --> 01:34:29,199
the alien hypothesis when you've got

2759
01:34:33,830 --> 01:34:31,840
somebody like a general being willing to

2760
01:34:34,550 --> 01:34:33,840
put their reputation in their military

2761
01:34:37,270 --> 01:34:34,560
career

2762
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:37,280
on the line to say these things well you

2763
01:34:39,750 --> 01:34:38,560
have to remember that somebody whose

2764
01:34:42,070 --> 01:34:39,760
name i won't mention claimed

2765
01:34:44,470 --> 01:34:42,080
to claim that we had mis misrepresented

2766
01:34:47,109 --> 01:34:44,480
the general exxon testimony

2767
01:34:47,910 --> 01:34:47,119
but um greg sandow had looked at all of

2768
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:47,920
this and and

2769
01:34:52,149 --> 01:34:50,320
suggested that we were very very careful

2770
01:34:54,390 --> 01:34:52,159
and very meticulous in how we

2771
01:34:55,830 --> 01:34:54,400
explained what general exxon's role was

2772
01:34:58,470 --> 01:34:55,840
and that he didn't see anything

2773
01:35:01,030 --> 01:34:58,480
firsthand other than flying over the uh

2774
01:35:02,550 --> 01:35:01,040
the uh one of the crash sites uh some

2775
01:35:05,910 --> 01:35:02,560
months later

2776
01:35:07,430 --> 01:35:05,920
but um when you have somebody like that

2777
01:35:09,350 --> 01:35:07,440
or you have general dubose who was

2778
01:35:12,310 --> 01:35:09,360
involved in it or you have colonels

2779
01:35:14,229 --> 01:35:12,320
um a number of colonels as opposed to

2780
01:35:15,830 --> 01:35:14,239
lieutenant colonels i

2781
01:35:17,590 --> 01:35:15,840
i kind of thumb my nose at lieutenant

2782
01:35:19,430 --> 01:35:17,600
colonel since i managed to reach that

2783
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:19,440
rank myself

2784
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:20,880
so i don't find it very impressive

2785
01:35:23,109 --> 01:35:22,639
anymore used to be really impressive if

2786
01:35:24,709 --> 01:35:23,119
you

2787
01:35:27,430 --> 01:35:24,719
were lieutenant colonel but now since i

2788
01:35:30,950 --> 01:35:27,440
made it it's not not so much

2789
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:30,960
yeah congratulations colonel well

2790
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:33,360
the funny thing was um when i was being

2791
01:35:36,390 --> 01:35:34,800
presented the bronze star medal for my

2792
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:36,400
service in iraq

2793
01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:38,800
from a united states senator by the way

2794
01:35:42,470 --> 01:35:40,639
i was going out to the national guard

2795
01:35:43,270 --> 01:35:42,480
armory and i'm in my lieutenant colonel

2796
01:35:45,590 --> 01:35:43,280
suit

2797
01:35:46,870 --> 01:35:45,600
and there was a young soldier running

2798
01:35:50,310 --> 01:35:46,880
around out there

2799
01:35:51,830 --> 01:35:50,320
and i i had him come over and i wanted

2800
01:35:52,390 --> 01:35:51,840
to know which room we were going to be

2801
01:35:54,790 --> 01:35:52,400
in

2802
01:35:56,149 --> 01:35:54,800
and this guy's paris just petrified and

2803
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:56,159
i said what the hell's the problem

2804
01:35:59,270 --> 01:35:57,920
here and then i realized oh i'm in my

2805
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:59,280
lieutenant colonel suit he probably

2806
01:36:02,390 --> 01:35:59,840
doesn't talk

2807
01:36:03,910 --> 01:36:02,400
yeah yeah you scared him it's like some

2808
01:36:05,669 --> 01:36:03,920
practice or something right

2809
01:36:07,109 --> 01:36:05,679
thank you thank you i appreciate your

2810
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:07,119
attempt to help i finally found the room

2811
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:09,119
but

2812
01:36:15,910 --> 01:36:14,560
an uh every member of colonel blanchard

2813
01:36:17,270 --> 01:36:15,920
staff that we interviewed with one

2814
01:36:20,629 --> 01:36:17,280
exception

2815
01:36:23,830 --> 01:36:20,639
said that it was um extraterrestrial

2816
01:36:25,189 --> 01:36:23,840
patrick saunders on both a ufo crash at

2817
01:36:26,629 --> 01:36:25,199
roswell and the truth about the ufo

2818
01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:26,639
crash at roswell and the fly leaves to

2819
01:36:29,109 --> 01:36:28,639
the paperbacks wrote notes to friends

2820
01:36:35,669 --> 01:36:29,119
and

2821
01:36:37,510 --> 01:36:35,679
talks about how they change the

2822
01:36:39,430 --> 01:36:37,520
serial numbers of people and they moved

2823
01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:39,440
the money around and they

2824
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:41,760
buried the paper trail and he wrote on

2825
01:36:44,070 --> 01:36:43,280
the top of that something to the effect

2826
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:44,080
this is

2827
01:36:48,070 --> 01:36:47,119
anybody anything and he signed his name

2828
01:36:51,990 --> 01:36:48,080
to it here's a

2829
01:36:54,310 --> 01:36:52,000
retired colonel admitting it

2830
01:36:55,669 --> 01:36:54,320
on paper it's one of the best document

2831
01:36:57,270 --> 01:36:55,679
bits of documentation we have

2832
01:36:59,430 --> 01:36:57,280
unfortunately

2833
01:37:01,189 --> 01:36:59,440
um it's after the book was published so

2834
01:37:03,430 --> 01:37:01,199
uh you can you could argue contamination

2835
01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:03,440
if you wanted to do so

2836
01:37:06,950 --> 01:37:05,280
but every member of of colonel blanchard

2837
01:37:10,390 --> 01:37:06,960
staff i think with the exception of

2838
01:37:12,070 --> 01:37:10,400
colonel barrel clow merrell claw

2839
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:12,080
no was it payne jennings it was one of

2840
01:37:16,470 --> 01:37:13,920
the two i think it was sparrowclaw

2841
01:37:18,149 --> 01:37:16,480
had written a note to kent jeffrey

2842
01:37:21,109 --> 01:37:18,159
saying

2843
01:37:22,550 --> 01:37:21,119
well there was nothing to it and now

2844
01:37:23,830 --> 01:37:22,560
maybe all these people stopped bothering

2845
01:37:25,270 --> 01:37:23,840
me and tell me

2846
01:37:27,430 --> 01:37:25,280
that sort of thing but everybody we

2847
01:37:29,430 --> 01:37:27,440
could talk to and that includes you know

2848
01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:29,440
jesse marcel patrick saunders

2849
01:37:35,350 --> 01:37:32,800
um um um

2850
01:37:36,709 --> 01:37:35,360
the operation i have a list and a list

2851
01:37:38,629 --> 01:37:36,719
of quotes from some

2852
01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:38,639
of all from high-ranking military

2853
01:37:42,310 --> 01:37:40,080
officials and to me

2854
01:37:44,390 --> 01:37:42,320
just sitting through you know like three

2855
01:37:46,149 --> 01:37:44,400
pages of quotes from some of these

2856
01:37:48,310 --> 01:37:46,159
high-ranking military officers

2857
01:37:49,750 --> 01:37:48,320
i just my experience with military

2858
01:37:52,709 --> 01:37:49,760
officers was my father

2859
01:37:53,189 --> 01:37:52,719
and and he was just like a no-nonsense

2860
01:37:55,030 --> 01:37:53,199
he

2861
01:37:56,390 --> 01:37:55,040
just wasn't bullshitter not to say that

2862
01:37:57,669 --> 01:37:56,400
if you're in the military you can't be a

2863
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:57,679
bullshitter but

2864
01:38:01,669 --> 01:38:00,239
i just find it pretty credible that so

2865
01:38:04,149 --> 01:38:01,679
many people have said

2866
01:38:05,750 --> 01:38:04,159
that it was alien or extraterrestrial

2867
01:38:07,830 --> 01:38:05,760
and again i know this one you're gonna

2868
01:38:11,030 --> 01:38:07,840
have to speculate on

2869
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:11,040
i understand perhaps why they covered it

2870
01:38:13,830 --> 01:38:11,679
up

2871
01:38:15,270 --> 01:38:13,840
first of all we don't even know is this

2872
01:38:18,070 --> 01:38:15,280
this could be

2873
01:38:19,270 --> 01:38:18,080
you know a recon mission and an invasion

2874
01:38:21,350 --> 01:38:19,280
might be taking place

2875
01:38:23,669 --> 01:38:21,360
next week we you know they didn't know

2876
01:38:26,390 --> 01:38:23,679
what these why were these beings here

2877
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:26,400
what was their purpose and and also with

2878
01:38:30,390 --> 01:38:27,119
the

2879
01:38:33,590 --> 01:38:30,400
world

2880
01:38:34,870 --> 01:38:33,600
sort of thing uh radio show created uh

2881
01:38:35,830 --> 01:38:34,880
they thought that everybody would go

2882
01:38:38,550 --> 01:38:35,840
nuts maybe

2883
01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:38,560
but why why do you believe if if they

2884
01:38:42,229 --> 01:38:39,600
did cover it up

2885
01:38:42,870 --> 01:38:42,239
they continue to cover it up why not

2886
01:38:44,629 --> 01:38:42,880
just

2887
01:38:46,709 --> 01:38:44,639
can't we handle it now we know about

2888
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:46,719
exoplanets we know about other star

2889
01:38:56,149 --> 01:38:52,870
it's national security okay

2890
01:39:00,149 --> 01:38:56,159
and you have to look at the belt montana

2891
01:39:03,109 --> 01:39:00,159
ufo sightings in 1967

2892
01:39:03,590 --> 01:39:03,119
um and this is the point where one of

2893
01:39:06,229 --> 01:39:03,600
the

2894
01:39:07,830 --> 01:39:06,239
missile flights was shut down completely

2895
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:07,840
and totally so they couldn't be launched

2896
01:39:10,070 --> 01:39:08,239
by an

2897
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:10,080
outside force it's not supposed to be

2898
01:39:14,870 --> 01:39:11,600
able to happen

2899
01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:14,880
and if you you um in one of one of the

2900
01:39:17,830 --> 01:39:16,480
books i talk about this specific

2901
01:39:19,990 --> 01:39:17,840
oh let me say one thing because you

2902
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:20,000
brought that up brad stagger and i used

2903
01:39:22,950 --> 01:39:21,360
to argue about who had written the most

2904
01:39:24,070 --> 01:39:22,960
ufo books i thought it was him he

2905
01:39:25,590 --> 01:39:24,080
thought it was me

2906
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:25,600
and we worried about nick redfern

2907
01:39:29,189 --> 01:39:27,840
catching up to him i think he might have

2908
01:39:30,790 --> 01:39:29,199
passed you guys by now

2909
01:39:32,310 --> 01:39:30,800
i don't think he has yet but i think he

2910
01:39:32,950 --> 01:39:32,320
if he hasn't he's getting awful darn

2911
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:32,960
close yeah

2912
01:39:35,990 --> 01:39:34,800
how many how many just books have you

2913
01:39:39,669 --> 01:39:36,000
written in total

2914
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:39,679
into books 125.

2915
01:39:43,590 --> 01:39:42,000
jesus wow you're going to count science

2916
01:39:44,550 --> 01:39:43,600
fiction that counts the action adventure

2917
01:39:46,310 --> 01:39:44,560
that impounds

2918
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:46,320
it counts the vietnam great ground zero

2919
01:39:49,510 --> 01:39:48,080
yeah i never knew until recently that

2920
01:39:51,270 --> 01:39:49,520
you wrote a bunch of science fiction

2921
01:39:52,870 --> 01:39:51,280
novels and i happen to love science

2922
01:39:54,470 --> 01:39:52,880
fiction novels so i'm gonna i'm gonna

2923
01:39:57,430 --> 01:39:54,480
get started on your catalog

2924
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:57,440
i think i'll let you know what i think

2925
01:40:01,189 --> 01:39:57,920
we had

2926
01:40:05,510 --> 01:40:01,199
the px

2927
01:40:06,870 --> 01:40:05,520
at uh in baghdad uh because

2928
01:40:08,790 --> 01:40:06,880
for a couple of friends and i were at

2929
01:40:09,590 --> 01:40:08,800
the px and we were looking at the books

2930
01:40:11,350 --> 01:40:09,600
and they had four

2931
01:40:13,590 --> 01:40:11,360
four of my science fiction novels in

2932
01:40:15,990 --> 01:40:13,600
there and so we pulled them off

2933
01:40:17,750 --> 01:40:16,000
the shelves and and we're talking to

2934
01:40:21,750 --> 01:40:17,760
people and people were buying the

2935
01:40:27,030 --> 01:40:21,760
books all four of them so so full

2936
01:40:30,149 --> 01:40:27,040
was a quarter no anyway um

2937
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:30,159
uh what will you so yeah i've done 125

2938
01:40:34,709 --> 01:40:30,960
books and

2939
01:40:37,030 --> 01:40:34,719
um and i have more coming out

2940
01:40:38,149 --> 01:40:37,040
and but but to get back to your original

2941
01:40:41,109 --> 01:40:38,159
question which was

2942
01:40:42,790 --> 01:40:41,119
it's national security about montana and

2943
01:40:44,070 --> 01:40:42,800
the um

2944
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:44,080
condon committee knew about the

2945
01:40:46,149 --> 01:40:45,360
sightings in belt montana they're

2946
01:40:47,910 --> 01:40:46,159
they're in the

2947
01:40:49,350 --> 01:40:47,920
blue book files i believe and it's it's

2948
01:40:50,709 --> 01:40:49,360
classified as unidentified they don't

2949
01:40:53,109 --> 01:40:50,719
know what was seen there

2950
01:40:54,390 --> 01:40:53,119
but there were other sightings going on

2951
01:40:55,430 --> 01:40:54,400
on the missile fields and these missile

2952
01:40:57,030 --> 01:40:55,440
fields around

2953
01:40:58,629 --> 01:40:57,040
this mountain air force base they're

2954
01:40:59,109 --> 01:40:58,639
like you know could be 100 miles from

2955
01:41:01,109 --> 01:40:59,119
the base

2956
01:41:03,750 --> 01:41:01,119
they're scattered all over all over the

2957
01:41:06,149 --> 01:41:03,760
prairie in montana

2958
01:41:07,590 --> 01:41:06,159
and there was a reported sighting of a

2959
01:41:09,030 --> 01:41:07,600
ufo and then all the missiles went

2960
01:41:11,750 --> 01:41:09,040
offline

2961
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:11,760
and the continent committee sent in

2962
01:41:15,510 --> 01:41:13,119
there guy who had a security clearance

2963
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:15,520
so he could see classified material

2964
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:18,800
and the ufo officer lieutenant colonel

2965
01:41:25,430 --> 01:41:22,159
louis chase who is the rb 47 pilot

2966
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,440
which is another sighting um was there

2967
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:26,639
and he's talking to him and they're

2968
01:41:29,510 --> 01:41:28,000
talking about belt montana and then the

2969
01:41:30,830 --> 01:41:29,520
guy asked about the missiles going

2970
01:41:33,590 --> 01:41:30,840
offline

2971
01:41:36,470 --> 01:41:33,600
and chase says

2972
01:41:38,470 --> 01:41:36,480
i i can't tell you about that you know

2973
01:41:40,870 --> 01:41:38,480
it's it's classified

2974
01:41:42,070 --> 01:41:40,880
and it's a national security issue so

2975
01:41:42,390 --> 01:41:42,080
when you look at the content committee

2976
01:41:45,030 --> 01:41:42,400
said

2977
01:41:45,990 --> 01:41:45,040
security issues involved well that's a

2978
01:41:47,270 --> 01:41:46,000
blatant lie because they knew it was

2979
01:41:48,709 --> 01:41:47,280
national syria calls because they had a

2980
01:41:49,990 --> 01:41:48,719
ufo sighting at a

2981
01:41:51,750 --> 01:41:50,000
base where they couldn't get the

2982
01:41:53,430 --> 01:41:51,760
information because of national security

2983
01:41:55,590 --> 01:41:53,440
but i think that's that's the bugaboo

2984
01:41:57,830 --> 01:41:55,600
and if you think about it now

2985
01:41:59,430 --> 01:41:57,840
if it came out that there was a way to

2986
01:42:03,270 --> 01:41:59,440
disable our missiles

2987
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:03,280
from outside the launch control facility

2988
01:42:07,990 --> 01:42:04,960
and the silos themselves you could

2989
01:42:10,790 --> 01:42:08,000
disable an entire flight at one time

2990
01:42:14,470 --> 01:42:10,800
that would be valuable information for

2991
01:42:16,629 --> 01:42:14,480
the russians the chinese anybody

2992
01:42:17,910 --> 01:42:16,639
and so you don't want them to find out

2993
01:42:19,109 --> 01:42:17,920
that it can be done

2994
01:42:20,950 --> 01:42:19,119
because if you know something is

2995
01:42:21,910 --> 01:42:20,960
possible you start looking for ways to

2996
01:42:23,590 --> 01:42:21,920
do it

2997
01:42:24,790 --> 01:42:23,600
if you think it's impossible oftentimes

2998
01:42:25,830 --> 01:42:24,800
you say what's impossible i'm not even

2999
01:42:27,030 --> 01:42:25,840
going to try but if

3000
01:42:28,229 --> 01:42:27,040
you know it can be done then you look

3001
01:42:29,990 --> 01:42:28,239
for ways to do it so i think it's

3002
01:42:31,430 --> 01:42:30,000
national a national security issue

3003
01:42:33,109 --> 01:42:31,440
and i think that's the bugaboo that

3004
01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:33,119
continues on today it's national

3005
01:42:36,310 --> 01:42:34,000
security

3006
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:36,320
that requires them to hide some of this

3007
01:42:39,830 --> 01:42:37,600
information and pretend like there's

3008
01:42:42,470 --> 01:42:39,840
nothing to it

3009
01:42:42,870 --> 01:42:42,480
yeah i just to me i i just think that

3010
01:42:45,270 --> 01:42:42,880
like

3011
01:42:46,310 --> 01:42:45,280
the the just the knowledge that there's

3012
01:42:48,229 --> 01:42:46,320
other species

3013
01:42:50,390 --> 01:42:48,239
of intelligent life out there in the

3014
01:42:52,709 --> 01:42:50,400
universe it seems to me to be almost a

3015
01:42:55,189 --> 01:42:52,719
crime to keep that from people

3016
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:55,199
you know it just just seems too

3017
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:56,000
important

3018
01:42:59,109 --> 01:42:58,719
of a revelation to do you think that

3019
01:43:02,629 --> 01:42:59,119
we'll

3020
01:43:04,390 --> 01:43:02,639
will eventually get to uh

3021
01:43:05,830 --> 01:43:04,400
some revelations or do you think the

3022
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:05,840
government will never

3023
01:43:10,149 --> 01:43:08,639
disclose what really happened i i

3024
01:43:12,149 --> 01:43:10,159
sincerely believe the governor

3025
01:43:14,310 --> 01:43:12,159
government will never disclose it but

3026
01:43:16,070 --> 01:43:14,320
it's not entirely in their hands

3027
01:43:17,590 --> 01:43:16,080
if there is alien visitation and the

3028
01:43:19,750 --> 01:43:17,600
aliens decide to land at

3029
01:43:21,430 --> 01:43:19,760
times square then the cat's out of the

3030
01:43:23,030 --> 01:43:21,440
bag pretty much

3031
01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:23,040
and that was the thing about roswell if

3032
01:43:26,629 --> 01:43:24,800
it had happened somewhere else they may

3033
01:43:28,709 --> 01:43:26,639
not have been able to hide it

3034
01:43:30,629 --> 01:43:28,719
but it happened in a very down in the

3035
01:43:33,750 --> 01:43:30,639
middle of the desert with a small pop

3036
01:43:35,830 --> 01:43:33,760
a small town nearby a military base yeah

3037
01:43:38,070 --> 01:43:35,840
military aids and the town's

3038
01:43:39,990 --> 01:43:38,080
livelihood is based on the military base

3039
01:43:42,470 --> 01:43:40,000
it's now no longer there but

3040
01:43:43,910 --> 01:43:42,480
um and and and it's right after world

3041
01:43:45,109 --> 01:43:43,920
war ii so when the government says you

3042
01:43:47,109 --> 01:43:45,119
know you got to keep this quiet don't

3043
01:43:48,390 --> 01:43:47,119
talk about it people did that

3044
01:43:49,350 --> 01:43:48,400
there was something called japanese

3045
01:43:50,629 --> 01:43:49,360
balloon bombs i don't know if you're

3046
01:43:53,189 --> 01:43:50,639
familiar with those or not it was

3047
01:43:53,910 --> 01:43:53,199
oh yeah yeah japanese people like that

3048
01:43:55,910 --> 01:43:53,920
battle of

3049
01:43:57,750 --> 01:43:55,920
what was that that ufo sighting in

3050
01:43:59,350 --> 01:43:57,760
california the battle of los angeles

3051
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:59,360
might have been one of those balloons

3052
01:44:02,790 --> 01:44:00,880
no they didn't start launching until

3053
01:44:06,070 --> 01:44:02,800
long after that but okay

3054
01:44:07,350 --> 01:44:06,080
okay um in late 1944 i think it was they

3055
01:44:08,950 --> 01:44:07,360
were creating these balloons that would

3056
01:44:10,070 --> 01:44:08,960
cross the atlantic they found the jet

3057
01:44:11,910 --> 01:44:10,080
stream and they would launch the

3058
01:44:14,550 --> 01:44:11,920
balloons into the jet stream

3059
01:44:15,990 --> 01:44:14,560
and attach bombs to them and there was a

3060
01:44:17,510 --> 01:44:16,000
mechanism

3061
01:44:19,189 --> 01:44:17,520
so that it would cycle through a number

3062
01:44:20,390 --> 01:44:19,199
of times and then if got to the point it

3063
01:44:22,070 --> 01:44:20,400
would drop its

3064
01:44:24,790 --> 01:44:22,080
incendiary bombs and what they wanted to

3065
01:44:26,550 --> 01:44:24,800
do was try to start fires in our forests

3066
01:44:28,149 --> 01:44:26,560
or start fires and factories and things

3067
01:44:29,270 --> 01:44:28,159
like that six people were actually

3068
01:44:31,910 --> 01:44:29,280
killed by a bloomberg

3069
01:44:33,430 --> 01:44:31,920
in oregon it's the only fatalities on

3070
01:44:34,950 --> 01:44:33,440
the north american continent

3071
01:44:36,629 --> 01:44:34,960
due to ending the action during world

3072
01:44:38,790 --> 01:44:36,639
war ii but

3073
01:44:39,830 --> 01:44:38,800
but and they got as far as uh michigan i

3074
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:39,840
think it was and this

3075
01:44:46,390 --> 01:44:43,040
a woman in iowa a reporter in iowa

3076
01:44:48,149 --> 01:44:46,400
uh had found one or knew about one

3077
01:44:49,510 --> 01:44:48,159
the farmer had reported to her she knew

3078
01:44:50,310 --> 01:44:49,520
what it was and she was going to write a

3079
01:44:52,709 --> 01:44:50,320
story for it

3080
01:44:54,070 --> 01:44:52,719
and the fbi showed up and said they

3081
01:44:55,510 --> 01:44:54,080
didn't want the public to know and

3082
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:55,520
panicked about they didn't want

3083
01:44:59,350 --> 01:44:58,000
newspapers because they they they didn't

3084
01:45:01,669 --> 01:44:59,360
want the japanese to know that the

3085
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:01,679
balloon bombs were having some success

3086
01:45:04,629 --> 01:45:02,719
they weren't having a lot they would

3087
01:45:06,390 --> 01:45:04,639
ramp up their efforts then right yeah

3088
01:45:07,189 --> 01:45:06,400
absolutely absolutely so they wanted to

3089
01:45:10,070 --> 01:45:07,199
keep it quiet

3090
01:45:11,830 --> 01:45:10,080
for very very logical reason uh once the

3091
01:45:13,510 --> 01:45:11,840
once the war was over

3092
01:45:15,590 --> 01:45:13,520
i think the day after the war was

3093
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:15,600
officially declared over she wrote her

3094
01:45:17,910 --> 01:45:16,320
story

3095
01:45:19,590 --> 01:45:17,920
about the balloon bombs that had fallen

3096
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:19,600
on iowa but

3097
01:45:23,350 --> 01:45:22,000
um so there there are national security

3098
01:45:25,669 --> 01:45:23,360
implications and

3099
01:45:27,109 --> 01:45:25,679
in 1947 if you ask the people we you

3100
01:45:28,709 --> 01:45:27,119
know please don't talk about this

3101
01:45:30,070 --> 01:45:28,719
we need a chance to figure out what's

3102
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:30,080
going on i think they would have said

3103
01:45:34,550 --> 01:45:31,600
yeah that's good

3104
01:45:35,669 --> 01:45:34,560
we'll take care of it and i i think the

3105
01:45:38,229 --> 01:45:35,679
stories of

3106
01:45:40,070 --> 01:45:38,239
of people being threatened may be

3107
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:40,080
somewhat hyperbolic

3108
01:45:44,149 --> 01:45:42,320
and i say that i think that the military

3109
01:45:45,510 --> 01:45:44,159
people could be reminded you know

3110
01:45:48,070 --> 01:45:45,520
if you come if you're exposed to

3111
01:45:51,430 --> 01:45:48,080
classified material

3112
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:51,440
you are not authorized to to

3113
01:45:53,990 --> 01:45:52,880
release that information to other people

3114
01:45:55,270 --> 01:45:54,000
regardless of where you got that

3115
01:45:56,550 --> 01:45:55,280
information you cannot release it to

3116
01:45:58,310 --> 01:45:56,560
other people and you will go to jail for

3117
01:46:00,790 --> 01:45:58,320
20 years

3118
01:46:01,990 --> 01:46:00,800
and i think they may have i i think the

3119
01:46:05,189 --> 01:46:02,000
stories have grown

3120
01:46:06,629 --> 01:46:05,199
into the death threats i think civilians

3121
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:06,639
were threatened with

3122
01:46:10,950 --> 01:46:08,000
jail and that sort of thing and i think

3123
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:14,229
confabulated it to being defined

3124
01:46:19,270 --> 01:46:17,119
yeah that sort of thing but i i think in

3125
01:46:20,709 --> 01:46:19,280
1947 it made good sense and then when

3126
01:46:22,310 --> 01:46:20,719
you plug in the national security

3127
01:46:23,750 --> 01:46:22,320
implications especially after something

3128
01:46:25,910 --> 01:46:23,760
like belt montana

3129
01:46:27,030 --> 01:46:25,920
then you understand why they were

3130
01:46:31,350 --> 01:46:27,040
reluctant to

3131
01:46:33,350 --> 01:46:31,360
release all the information i think it's

3132
01:46:33,669 --> 01:46:33,360
the national security implications but i

3133
01:46:37,669 --> 01:46:33,679
think

3134
01:46:40,709 --> 01:46:37,679
to find out is if the aliens

3135
01:46:41,990 --> 01:46:40,719
arrive and make themselves known yeah

3136
01:46:43,669 --> 01:46:42,000
i've often thought that if there was

3137
01:46:45,510 --> 01:46:43,679
another mass sighting event like

3138
01:46:47,109 --> 01:46:45,520
the phoenix lights but maybe taking up a

3139
01:46:49,189 --> 01:46:47,119
few notches

3140
01:46:50,310 --> 01:46:49,199
it would be really difficult for them to

3141
01:46:52,870 --> 01:46:50,320
to cover up

3142
01:46:54,790 --> 01:46:52,880
a real big mass sighting and that may be

3143
01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:54,800
how some form of disclosure comes our

3144
01:46:57,270 --> 01:46:55,679
way

3145
01:46:58,390 --> 01:46:57,280
i've talked to several skeptics about

3146
01:46:59,430 --> 01:46:58,400
this what they would take and some of

3147
01:47:01,910 --> 01:46:59,440
them said well i've got to see the craft

3148
01:47:05,270 --> 01:47:01,920
from the bodies period end of discussion

3149
01:47:08,149 --> 01:47:05,280
um but but those who are somewhat less

3150
01:47:09,189 --> 01:47:08,159
rigid in their thinking their attitude

3151
01:47:11,109 --> 01:47:09,199
is well

3152
01:47:12,550 --> 01:47:11,119
uh how it doesn't even have to be a mass

3153
01:47:14,070 --> 01:47:12,560
sighting but people through

3154
01:47:15,510 --> 01:47:14,080
independent people three or four

3155
01:47:17,030 --> 01:47:15,520
different locations photographing the

3156
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:17,040
same object

3157
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:18,960
whether it's just photographs or movie

3158
01:47:21,590 --> 01:47:20,480
footage and in today's world i can't

3159
01:47:23,430 --> 01:47:21,600
understand why you wouldn't have movie

3160
01:47:24,790 --> 01:47:23,440
footage cell phones

3161
01:47:27,109 --> 01:47:24,800
of these sorts of things and if you've

3162
01:47:30,470 --> 01:47:27,119
got people independently

3163
01:47:31,270 --> 01:47:30,480
recording a sighting three or four or

3164
01:47:33,830 --> 01:47:31,280
five of them

3165
01:47:34,950 --> 01:47:33,840
in separate locations now you can

3166
01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:34,960
triangulate

3167
01:47:38,070 --> 01:47:37,280
now you can gather all kinds of data

3168
01:47:40,550 --> 01:47:38,080
from it and

3169
01:47:42,070 --> 01:47:40,560
and it becomes very difficult to to

3170
01:47:44,310 --> 01:47:42,080
determine or to

3171
01:47:47,189 --> 01:47:44,320
say no this is some mundane thing that

3172
01:47:48,390 --> 01:47:47,199
was misinterpreted

3173
01:47:49,750 --> 01:47:48,400
but you've got to have you've got to

3174
01:47:51,030 --> 01:47:49,760
have multiple witnesses and you've got

3175
01:47:53,270 --> 01:47:51,040
to have

3176
01:47:54,550 --> 01:47:53,280
independent corroboration for them or

3177
01:47:55,830 --> 01:47:54,560
independent uh

3178
01:47:58,550 --> 01:47:55,840
they have to be independent of one

3179
01:48:00,229 --> 01:47:58,560
another and that that may happen

3180
01:48:01,669 --> 01:48:00,239
uh if everybody would stop looking at

3181
01:48:02,950 --> 01:48:01,679
their cell phones and look up in the sky

3182
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,960
once in a while

3183
01:48:06,310 --> 01:48:04,400
yeah i know i have two children and i

3184
01:48:07,669 --> 01:48:06,320
have a real problem with them and screen

3185
01:48:09,830 --> 01:48:07,679
time like i have to

3186
01:48:11,510 --> 01:48:09,840
you know say that's not the real world

3187
01:48:13,109 --> 01:48:11,520
put that down we're going to do some

3188
01:48:15,430 --> 01:48:13,119
activities or yeah

3189
01:48:17,669 --> 01:48:15,440
i i wanted to give you an opportunity

3190
01:48:19,830 --> 01:48:17,679
yeah i wanted to give you an opportunity

3191
01:48:20,790 --> 01:48:19,840
here i'm going to share my screen and

3192
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:20,800
show people i

3193
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:22,159
i don't know what your latest book is

3194
01:48:24,709 --> 01:48:23,600
but this is the latest book of yours

3195
01:48:27,669 --> 01:48:24,719
that i've actually read

3196
01:48:28,229 --> 01:48:27,679
and this is roswell in the 21st century

3197
01:48:32,629 --> 01:48:28,239
uh

3198
01:48:34,390 --> 01:48:32,639
have some other book

3199
01:48:35,750 --> 01:48:34,400
this is project project blue book yeah

3200
01:48:38,310 --> 01:48:35,760
somebody put the link to that

3201
01:48:39,750 --> 01:48:38,320
in the in the live chat earlier so

3202
01:48:40,790 --> 01:48:39,760
that's all about project blue book

3203
01:48:42,709 --> 01:48:40,800
that's interesting

3204
01:48:44,470 --> 01:48:42,719
but are all your books on amazon like if

3205
01:48:46,709 --> 01:48:44,480
somebody wanted to hear more from yes

3206
01:48:48,470 --> 01:48:46,719
or read your book yes yes mostly just

3207
01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:48,480
search kevin randle right

3208
01:48:51,750 --> 01:48:50,159
yeah and most of them you get it you can

3209
01:48:53,350 --> 01:48:51,760
get them as ebooks the

3210
01:48:54,870 --> 01:48:53,360
vietnam ground zero books as i said are

3211
01:48:57,229 --> 01:48:54,880
still are are coming up

3212
01:48:58,470 --> 01:48:57,239
and if you go to vietnam ground

3213
01:49:00,070 --> 01:48:58,480
zero.blogspot.com

3214
01:49:01,669 --> 01:49:00,080
there's a link on the side there that

3215
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:01,679
you can link to the books and

3216
01:49:07,510 --> 01:49:04,960
see what's what's well there you go

3217
01:49:08,870 --> 01:49:07,520
somebody i was going to say encounter in

3218
01:49:10,229 --> 01:49:08,880
the desert that's about the socorro

3219
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:10,239
sighting

3220
01:49:15,109 --> 01:49:13,760
i noticed these were by real publishers

3221
01:49:16,790 --> 01:49:15,119
uh

3222
01:49:18,709 --> 01:49:16,800
the ufos in the deep state will be out

3223
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:18,719
in may

3224
01:49:23,270 --> 01:49:22,320
that was not now yes this title has not

3225
01:49:26,950 --> 01:49:23,280
yet been released

3226
01:49:29,430 --> 01:49:26,960
okay wow yeah we'll remember the alamo

3227
01:49:30,550 --> 01:49:29,440
the best of roswell oh no that's some

3228
01:49:32,310 --> 01:49:30,560
reality

3229
01:49:33,910 --> 01:49:32,320
alien mysteries conspiracies and

3230
01:49:35,669 --> 01:49:33,920
cover-ups

3231
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:35,679
yeah i could stay busy reading your

3232
01:49:38,790 --> 01:49:37,040
books for quite quite a long

3233
01:49:46,470 --> 01:49:38,800
time there's another science fiction

3234
01:49:50,870 --> 01:49:48,950
also exposes also an audio book which i

3235
01:49:52,790 --> 01:49:50,880
love audio books so

3236
01:49:54,709 --> 01:49:52,800
but bob cornett and i did uh and here's

3237
01:49:56,229 --> 01:49:54,719
your amazon link somebody see we've got

3238
01:49:57,189 --> 01:49:56,239
a good live chat they're helping you

3239
01:50:00,070 --> 01:49:57,199
sell some books

3240
01:50:01,669 --> 01:50:00,080
okay thank you guys appreciate it yeah

3241
01:50:03,430 --> 01:50:01,679
and if you have if you have a little bit

3242
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:03,440
more time i thought we could ask the

3243
01:50:06,629 --> 01:50:04,639
live chat for any

3244
01:50:08,470 --> 01:50:06,639
questions for you because this is a real

3245
01:50:10,229 --> 01:50:08,480
opportunity to get

3246
01:50:11,510 --> 01:50:10,239
all the people here we've got 50

3247
01:50:13,270 --> 01:50:11,520
watching live

3248
01:50:15,109 --> 01:50:13,280
if you have any questions for mr randall

3249
01:50:16,629 --> 01:50:15,119
please put them in all caps i heard

3250
01:50:18,629 --> 01:50:16,639
somebody mention if you could just

3251
01:50:20,790 --> 01:50:18,639
talk briefly because you and i agree on

3252
01:50:23,109 --> 01:50:20,800
one uh part of roswell

3253
01:50:23,990 --> 01:50:23,119
the book uh colonel corso's the day

3254
01:50:26,229 --> 01:50:24,000
after roswell

3255
01:50:27,270 --> 01:50:26,239
i did not find it credible at all after

3256
01:50:30,070 --> 01:50:27,280
looking into him

3257
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:30,080
yeah you don't find it credible either i

3258
01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:31,520
have a background in computer science

3259
01:50:36,390 --> 01:50:33,280
and electronics and so

3260
01:50:38,550 --> 01:50:36,400
for somebody to suggest that the

3261
01:50:40,629 --> 01:50:38,560
transistor wasn't already

3262
01:50:41,910 --> 01:50:40,639
well on its way to being invented before

3263
01:50:44,470 --> 01:50:41,920
the roswell event

3264
01:50:46,709 --> 01:50:44,480
and and just some of the things that he

3265
01:50:48,950 --> 01:50:46,719
talks about in there you know that

3266
01:50:52,229 --> 01:50:48,960
he gives zero credit to human

3267
01:50:55,669 --> 01:50:52,239
researchers the laser came from roswell

3268
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:55,679
uh computer chips the transistor

3269
01:51:00,870 --> 01:50:59,040
uh fiber optics but if you look into the

3270
01:51:02,790 --> 01:51:00,880
the actual development of all these

3271
01:51:03,589 --> 01:51:02,800
technologies they were well on their way

3272
01:51:05,990 --> 01:51:03,599
before

3273
01:51:07,510 --> 01:51:06,000
roswell or at least there was some start

3274
01:51:10,709 --> 01:51:07,520
or foundation for them

3275
01:51:13,510 --> 01:51:10,719
to come if you uh

3276
01:51:15,109 --> 01:51:13,520
well you haven't run convoys but but i

3277
01:51:15,510 --> 01:51:15,119
have been involved in convoys crossing

3278
01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:15,520
straight

3279
01:51:21,030 --> 01:51:18,880
state lines for example when we were

3280
01:51:22,790 --> 01:51:21,040
deploying to iraq we had to go to fort

3281
01:51:24,550 --> 01:51:22,800
riley kansas

3282
01:51:26,790 --> 01:51:24,560
and we had to cross state lines and we

3283
01:51:29,350 --> 01:51:26,800
had automatic weapons

3284
01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:29,360
um so it's very very difficult to do

3285
01:51:32,629 --> 01:51:30,880
that i mean we're authorized automatic

3286
01:51:34,310 --> 01:51:32,639
weapons but we had them

3287
01:51:36,310 --> 01:51:34,320
and we had to coordinate with an awful

3288
01:51:39,109 --> 01:51:36,320
lot

3289
01:51:41,030 --> 01:51:39,119
and when we stopped when we stopped we

3290
01:51:43,430 --> 01:51:41,040
had our own guards on those

3291
01:51:45,189 --> 01:51:43,440
trucks we didn't bring anybody else in

3292
01:51:46,709 --> 01:51:45,199
so when corso talks about how they were

3293
01:51:49,910 --> 01:51:46,719
trucking the

3294
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:49,920
bodies to um right field i'm thinking

3295
01:51:53,189 --> 01:51:51,599
why they got airplanes

3296
01:51:54,870 --> 01:51:53,199
you don't need you don't need to put

3297
01:51:57,750 --> 01:51:54,880
them in a truck

3298
01:51:59,270 --> 01:51:57,760
we can fly them on airplanes guys uh and

3299
01:52:01,030 --> 01:51:59,280
stopped at fort riley

3300
01:52:03,350 --> 01:52:01,040
and he and he says that they they

3301
01:52:04,070 --> 01:52:03,360
unloaded the trucks and took the boxes

3302
01:52:20,550 --> 01:52:04,080
the

3303
01:52:21,990 --> 01:52:20,560
1947 you're not going to be buddy buddy

3304
01:52:25,990 --> 01:52:22,000
with the ncos that way

3305
01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:26,000
in 1947. things have changed now and

3306
01:52:30,390 --> 01:52:28,400
in the relations well in aviation units

3307
01:52:31,910 --> 01:52:30,400
it really wasn't that great dichotomy

3308
01:52:33,109 --> 01:52:31,920
between the officers and enlisted men

3309
01:52:33,990 --> 01:52:33,119
because you always work so closely

3310
01:52:38,550 --> 01:52:34,000
together and you

3311
01:52:40,390 --> 01:52:38,560
and you relied on one another to survive

3312
01:52:41,750 --> 01:52:40,400
but it just it just didn't make sense

3313
01:52:43,750 --> 01:52:41,760
and i'm thinking if i'm if i'm

3314
01:52:45,669 --> 01:52:43,760
responsible for the convoy

3315
01:52:47,750 --> 01:52:45,679
when we get to fort riley to remain

3316
01:52:49,750 --> 01:52:47,760
overnight because you've

3317
01:52:51,589 --> 01:52:49,760
the army has regulations on how you do

3318
01:52:54,470 --> 01:52:51,599
these things

3319
01:52:55,830 --> 01:52:54,480
my people are guarding the trucks period

3320
01:52:57,990 --> 01:52:55,840
end of discussion

3321
01:52:58,950 --> 01:52:58,000
and i know that when we when we convoyed

3322
01:53:06,229 --> 01:52:58,960
from

3323
01:53:08,870 --> 01:53:06,239
when we remained overnight

3324
01:53:09,350 --> 01:53:08,880
we ran our own we there were guys from

3325
01:53:15,430 --> 01:53:09,360
the

3326
01:53:17,430 --> 01:53:15,440
military organization

3327
01:53:19,270 --> 01:53:17,440
but we were also guarding the interior

3328
01:53:21,030 --> 01:53:19,280
and and i remember

3329
01:53:23,350 --> 01:53:21,040
i was on the two o'clock in the morning

3330
01:53:25,750 --> 01:53:23,360
shift with the battalion commander

3331
01:53:26,550 --> 01:53:25,760
we because we of course were we're doing

3332
01:53:29,750 --> 01:53:26,560
our part to

3333
01:53:31,189 --> 01:53:29,760
to um for the guard duty as well we

3334
01:53:32,470 --> 01:53:31,199
we weren't required to do it but we

3335
01:53:34,470 --> 01:53:32,480
thought you know what's the best thing

3336
01:53:35,669 --> 01:53:34,480
to do

3337
01:53:37,189 --> 01:53:35,679
does it make sense right if you have

3338
01:53:38,470 --> 01:53:37,199
something so top secret why would you

3339
01:53:49,030 --> 01:53:38,480
let locals guard it

3340
01:53:52,229 --> 01:53:51,109
why don't you get a camera come here and

3341
01:53:55,189 --> 01:53:52,239
take some photographs

3342
01:53:56,550 --> 01:53:55,199
yo-yos um so i mean there was a lot of

3343
01:53:57,510 --> 01:53:56,560
stuff he he claimed to being the

3344
01:54:00,229 --> 01:53:57,520
commander

3345
01:54:01,030 --> 01:54:00,239
at um white sands missile range there

3346
01:54:02,709 --> 01:54:01,040
was never

3347
01:54:04,709 --> 01:54:02,719
a commander under the rank of colonel

3348
01:54:06,390 --> 01:54:04,719
with the exception of the first guy

3349
01:54:07,830 --> 01:54:06,400
and one guy who was temporary commander

3350
01:54:09,430 --> 01:54:07,840
when the general who was in charge had a

3351
01:54:11,830 --> 01:54:09,440
heart attack and died

3352
01:54:12,470 --> 01:54:11,840
um everybody who had been in command at

3353
01:54:15,430 --> 01:54:12,480
wright san

3354
01:54:18,390 --> 01:54:15,440
white sands had been a general officer

3355
01:54:20,390 --> 01:54:18,400
and he said a lot of things like that

3356
01:54:21,589 --> 01:54:20,400
he had the the introduction to his book

3357
01:54:23,830 --> 01:54:21,599
i've actually got one of the books with

3358
01:54:25,910 --> 01:54:23,840
the introduction by strom thurman in it

3359
01:54:26,950 --> 01:54:25,920
yeah and he had a poll there pulled that

3360
01:54:30,229 --> 01:54:26,960
yeah yeah

3361
01:54:32,070 --> 01:54:30,239
famous so it's so a senator writes the

3362
01:54:33,750 --> 01:54:32,080
forward to his book not realizing that

3363
01:54:35,589 --> 01:54:33,760
it's a book about ufos and then he gets

3364
01:54:35,990 --> 01:54:35,599
pissed when he when he figures that out

3365
01:54:38,870 --> 01:54:36,000
and once

3366
01:54:40,709 --> 01:54:38,880
it's taken out and yeah the books

3367
01:54:42,229 --> 01:54:40,719
absolutely so you know we looked at all

3368
01:54:43,830 --> 01:54:42,239
of that sort of thing

3369
01:54:45,589 --> 01:54:43,840
corso just wasn't quite well there's a

3370
01:54:49,189 --> 01:54:45,599
picture in the book of a

3371
01:54:51,030 --> 01:54:49,199
ufo over the hills um

3372
01:54:52,629 --> 01:54:51,040
and those of us who've been around the

3373
01:54:55,430 --> 01:54:52,639
field more than 10 minutes know that the

3374
01:54:58,310 --> 01:54:55,440
picture's a hoax it was published in

3375
01:54:59,910 --> 01:54:58,320
1966 and look magazine did a

3376
01:55:01,030 --> 01:54:59,920
flying saucer special that's one of the

3377
01:55:02,149 --> 01:55:01,040
pictures in there the guy took the

3378
01:55:05,109 --> 01:55:02,159
picture said yeah

3379
01:55:06,629 --> 01:55:05,119
i was young i was 20 years old uh it was

3380
01:55:07,669 --> 01:55:06,639
a ford hubcap we threw it in the air we

3381
01:55:09,669 --> 01:55:07,679
took a photograph

3382
01:55:11,830 --> 01:55:09,679
and that's in corso's book he doesn't

3383
01:55:14,070 --> 01:55:11,840
even know it's fake

3384
01:55:16,229 --> 01:55:14,080
yeah that doesn't lend well to his

3385
01:55:18,390 --> 01:55:16,239
credibility here's a quick question

3386
01:55:19,430 --> 01:55:18,400
bob lazar credible or fake i know what i

3387
01:55:21,830 --> 01:55:19,440
believe

3388
01:55:23,910 --> 01:55:21,840
well i i don't i don't find a story

3389
01:55:27,189 --> 01:55:23,920
particularly credible

3390
01:55:29,109 --> 01:55:27,199
we agree on that my friend george knapp

3391
01:55:31,830 --> 01:55:29,119
is mad at me for that but that's the way

3392
01:55:32,550 --> 01:55:31,840
you know he took i i got into it with

3393
01:55:35,910 --> 01:55:32,560
george knapp

3394
01:55:37,750 --> 01:55:35,920
over the end of a documentary you know i

3395
01:55:39,270 --> 01:55:37,760
did some my own research and found out

3396
01:55:41,750 --> 01:55:39,280
that that had nothing to do with element

3397
01:55:44,229 --> 01:55:41,760
115 or flying saucer stories it had to

3398
01:55:47,109 --> 01:55:44,239
do with a routine murder investigation

3399
01:55:49,510 --> 01:55:47,119
apparently mr lazar was selling there's

3400
01:55:51,030 --> 01:55:49,520
a valium or thorium i always forget what

3401
01:55:53,109 --> 01:55:51,040
the element was called but he sold

3402
01:55:54,709 --> 01:55:53,119
somebody either thalium or thorium

3403
01:55:56,550 --> 01:55:54,719
and then the guy murdered his wife with

3404
01:55:58,070 --> 01:55:56,560
it in another state so they came there

3405
01:55:59,669 --> 01:55:58,080
to find the thallium and the sales

3406
01:56:01,430 --> 01:55:59,679
records had nothing to do with flying

3407
01:56:03,750 --> 01:56:01,440
saucers or any of that stuff

3408
01:56:05,589 --> 01:56:03,760
and so i i took that to george knapp and

3409
01:56:08,149 --> 01:56:05,599
boy he was not happy with me

3410
01:56:10,950 --> 01:56:08,159
and told me that i don't know [\h__\h] about

3411
01:56:13,189 --> 01:56:10,960
research or murders or whatever so

3412
01:56:15,510 --> 01:56:13,199
but it is what it is you know that's

3413
01:56:18,470 --> 01:56:15,520
kind of the problem too you know um

3414
01:56:21,030 --> 01:56:18,480
if you were to ask me about kecksburg 10

3415
01:56:22,790 --> 01:56:21,040
years ago i'd say yeah that's good

3416
01:56:24,629 --> 01:56:22,800
and now i just don't know i don't think

3417
01:56:26,790 --> 01:56:24,639
so i think it's i think there's

3418
01:56:28,470 --> 01:56:26,800
alternative explanations for it and it's

3419
01:56:29,830 --> 01:56:28,480
again cluttered like the roswell field

3420
01:56:30,790 --> 01:56:29,840
with people coming forward saying yeah i

3421
01:56:32,390 --> 01:56:30,800
was there i saw this

3422
01:56:34,070 --> 01:56:32,400
i saw that the other thing yeah i'm in

3423
01:56:37,270 --> 01:56:34,080
pennsylvania and i actually

3424
01:56:39,669 --> 01:56:37,280
i actually drove out there and uh and uh

3425
01:56:41,189 --> 01:56:39,679
to see the crash site and i was pretty

3426
01:56:43,270 --> 01:56:41,199
underwhelmed

3427
01:56:45,750 --> 01:56:43,280
well i know stanford did an awful lot of

3428
01:56:49,109 --> 01:56:45,760
work and uh yeah he was on my show twice

3429
01:56:50,790 --> 01:56:49,119
previously and he's a nice guy great guy

3430
01:56:53,189 --> 01:56:50,800
nice guy

3431
01:56:54,310 --> 01:56:53,199
yeah but i don't know i think that that

3432
01:56:56,709 --> 01:56:54,320
was most likely

3433
01:56:58,149 --> 01:56:56,719
it was it was it's just too coincidental

3434
01:56:59,990 --> 01:56:58,159
to me that a russian

3435
01:57:03,430 --> 01:57:00,000
satellite went down right around that

3436
01:57:05,189 --> 01:57:03,440
time you know at the same time

3437
01:57:06,550 --> 01:57:05,199
yeah there's there's some problems with

3438
01:57:08,229 --> 01:57:06,560
that story

3439
01:57:09,990 --> 01:57:08,239
but you know we we have to look at all

3440
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:10,000
of that sort of thing you know and and

3441
01:57:13,669 --> 01:57:11,840
i get really tired and i've said it

3442
01:57:14,790 --> 01:57:13,679
before these people

3443
01:57:16,870 --> 01:57:14,800
falling back on their military

3444
01:57:18,629 --> 01:57:16,880
credentials and you brought up corso for

3445
01:57:20,470 --> 01:57:18,639
example well i was a colonel in the air

3446
01:57:21,990 --> 01:57:20,480
in the army no he wasn't he was a

3447
01:57:24,390 --> 01:57:22,000
lieutenant colonel

3448
01:57:25,990 --> 01:57:24,400
your big difference you know well

3449
01:57:27,270 --> 01:57:26,000
colonel or lieutenant colonel is a big

3450
01:57:29,109 --> 01:57:27,280
difference isn't there

3451
01:57:30,790 --> 01:57:29,119
well i've always looked at it this way

3452
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:30,800
if you if you are commissioned as a

3453
01:57:33,830 --> 01:57:32,159
second lieutenant

3454
01:57:35,510 --> 01:57:33,840
there's about a 95 percent chance you'll

3455
01:57:37,109 --> 01:57:35,520
be promoted first lieutenant you either

3456
01:57:39,350 --> 01:57:37,119
have to get out get killed or

3457
01:57:41,910 --> 01:57:39,360
really screw up and the step from first

3458
01:57:44,470 --> 01:57:41,920
lieutenant captain isn't that big

3459
01:57:46,229 --> 01:57:44,480
the step from captain to to major is a

3460
01:57:47,750 --> 01:57:46,239
little bit larger

3461
01:57:49,750 --> 01:57:47,760
because you're moving from company grade

3462
01:57:50,550 --> 01:57:49,760
to field grade and more responsibility

3463
01:57:53,270 --> 01:57:50,560
so

3464
01:57:54,950 --> 01:57:53,280
fewer people are are selected for major

3465
01:57:56,709 --> 01:57:54,960
and you move from from major to

3466
01:57:59,430 --> 01:57:56,719
to lieutenant colonel that's another

3467
01:58:00,790 --> 01:57:59,440
step but not a real big step for major

3468
01:58:01,589 --> 01:58:00,800
lieutenant colonel but when you get to

3469
01:58:04,629 --> 01:58:01,599
colonel

3470
01:58:07,189 --> 01:58:04,639
that's a big step because now you're

3471
01:58:08,790 --> 01:58:07,199
you're on the cusp of general officer

3472
01:58:10,149 --> 01:58:08,800
and then go to brigadier general of

3473
01:58:11,910 --> 01:58:10,159
course is another large step but i

3474
01:58:15,910 --> 01:58:11,920
always felt it felt it

3475
01:58:18,550 --> 01:58:15,920
looked at it that way and so um

3476
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:18,560
and carson got caught on that and i had

3477
01:58:22,229 --> 01:58:19,760
a similar situation

3478
01:58:25,270 --> 01:58:22,239
happen to me when the ufo case book came

3479
01:58:28,310 --> 01:58:25,280
out the publisher put u.s air force

3480
01:58:31,750 --> 01:58:28,320
uh retired

3481
01:58:33,430 --> 01:58:31,760
because i i signed something with usafr

3482
01:58:35,109 --> 01:58:33,440
which was united states air force

3483
01:58:36,709 --> 01:58:35,119
reserve and he thought it was retired so

3484
01:58:37,350 --> 01:58:36,719
the book comes out and says retired on

3485
01:58:39,590 --> 01:58:37,360
it

3486
01:58:41,750 --> 01:58:39,600
and some guy wrote this big expose on me

3487
01:58:45,750 --> 01:58:41,760
[Music]

3488
01:58:48,390 --> 01:58:45,760
you're much too young and i had joined

3489
01:58:50,790 --> 01:58:48,400
i joined the army when i was 18 and at

3490
01:58:51,990 --> 01:58:50,800
the time this came out i was 38

3491
01:58:54,709 --> 01:58:52,000
and so i wrote back and said well

3492
01:58:56,950 --> 01:58:54,719
actually i am old enough to be retired

3493
01:58:57,990 --> 01:58:56,960
but that was a mistake the editor made

3494
01:59:01,030 --> 01:58:58,000
not me

3495
01:59:04,310 --> 01:59:01,040
it should have been reserved not retired

3496
01:59:05,830 --> 01:59:04,320
and so i copped to it and i and and i i

3497
01:59:08,550 --> 01:59:05,840
think the same thing happened with

3498
01:59:09,830 --> 01:59:08,560
corso they just got to use colin named

3499
01:59:11,589 --> 01:59:09,840
colonel and didn't realize it was

3500
01:59:12,149 --> 01:59:11,599
lieutenant colonel so when the book came

3501
01:59:14,870 --> 01:59:12,159
out he

3502
01:59:16,550 --> 01:59:14,880
he says yeah i was retire i was promoted

3503
01:59:18,390 --> 01:59:16,560
to colonel when i retired no evidence

3504
01:59:20,310 --> 01:59:18,400
that that happened at all

3505
01:59:22,149 --> 01:59:20,320
so i mean the cover of the bible and

3506
01:59:23,030 --> 01:59:22,159
that's not very common for somebody to

3507
01:59:26,629 --> 01:59:23,040
get

3508
01:59:28,709 --> 01:59:26,639
retire is it

3509
01:59:30,390 --> 01:59:28,719
well as you retire sometimes there are

3510
01:59:32,229 --> 01:59:30,400
brevit promotions

3511
01:59:33,589 --> 01:59:32,239
as kind of a reward for your service

3512
01:59:34,870 --> 01:59:33,599
especially in the reserves of the

3513
01:59:35,589 --> 01:59:34,880
nationalism so maybe you could get a

3514
01:59:37,669 --> 01:59:35,599
higher

3515
01:59:39,109 --> 01:59:37,679
retirement monthly payment but you're

3516
01:59:39,990 --> 01:59:39,119
right you want to do your favor on the

3517
01:59:42,790 --> 01:59:40,000
way out

3518
01:59:44,070 --> 01:59:42,800
the the time and grade for promotions

3519
01:59:46,530 --> 01:59:44,080
differed radically from

3520
01:59:47,669 --> 01:59:46,540
from the reserve to the

3521
01:59:49,750 --> 01:59:47,679
[Music]

3522
01:59:51,030 --> 01:59:49,760
active forces and you look at a lot of

3523
01:59:54,040 --> 01:59:51,040
officers

3524
01:59:55,589 --> 01:59:54,050
ranks and you'll see they'll be

3525
01:59:57,350 --> 01:59:55,599
[Music]

3526
01:59:59,270 --> 01:59:57,360
a brigadier general and their permanent

3527
02:00:01,270 --> 01:59:59,280
grade will be major

3528
02:00:02,310 --> 02:00:01,280
and so once you retire if you've served

3529
02:00:03,910 --> 02:00:02,320
on active duty

3530
02:00:05,750 --> 02:00:03,920
in that higher grade then then you

3531
02:00:07,830 --> 02:00:05,760
retire at the higher grade

3532
02:00:08,180 --> 02:00:07,840
or if you get into trouble you revert to

3533
02:00:09,270 --> 02:00:08,190
your

3534
02:00:10,870 --> 02:00:09,280
[Music]

3535
02:00:12,470 --> 02:00:10,880
your permanent grade i always kind of

3536
02:00:14,310 --> 02:00:12,480
laughed about that because the air force

3537
02:00:17,589 --> 02:00:14,320
had done away with ward officers and

3538
02:00:20,310 --> 02:00:17,599
when i went into rotc

3539
02:00:20,870 --> 02:00:20,320
they listed my grade as ward officer

3540
02:00:22,390 --> 02:00:20,880
because i'd

3541
02:00:24,070 --> 02:00:22,400
been a warrant officer in the army and i

3542
02:00:25,910 --> 02:00:24,080
always thought it was kind of funny that

3543
02:00:27,669 --> 02:00:25,920
technically could have made me the last

3544
02:00:30,070 --> 02:00:27,679
ward officer in the air force

3545
02:00:31,589 --> 02:00:30,080
but i got commissioned it didn't happen

3546
02:00:33,430 --> 02:00:31,599
so had i been in the air force and got

3547
02:00:37,589 --> 02:00:33,440
out i would have um

3548
02:00:40,229 --> 02:00:37,599
um i i you know i i could have

3549
02:00:43,030 --> 02:00:40,239
been the last air the last air force off

3550
02:00:45,430 --> 02:00:43,040
last air force ward officer

3551
02:00:46,470 --> 02:00:45,440
another good question is but i think

3552
02:00:47,830 --> 02:00:46,480
you've kind of already answered this

3553
02:00:49,030 --> 02:00:47,840
what is your hope for the future in

3554
02:00:51,430 --> 02:00:49,040
reference to government

3555
02:00:52,310 --> 02:00:51,440
disclosure i as i said i don't think

3556
02:00:54,550 --> 02:00:52,320
it's going to happen

3557
02:00:55,510 --> 02:00:54,560
i think we have to wait for some some

3558
02:00:57,589 --> 02:00:55,520
other force to

3559
02:00:58,629 --> 02:00:57,599
to do it the there's no motivation for

3560
02:01:00,149 --> 02:00:58,639
the government to do it

3561
02:01:02,149 --> 02:01:00,159
and i think in today's environment

3562
02:01:06,070 --> 02:01:02,159
especially with what's going on

3563
02:01:08,070 --> 02:01:06,080
uh they're too busy doing other stuff

3564
02:01:09,830 --> 02:01:08,080
some of it not very important some of it

3565
02:01:11,270 --> 02:01:09,840
not very useful but they're busy doing

3566
02:01:12,629 --> 02:01:11,280
this other stuff

3567
02:01:15,270 --> 02:01:12,639
when they should be worrying about some

3568
02:01:17,990 --> 02:01:15,280
of the problems we have like covet 19

3569
02:01:20,790 --> 02:01:18,000
but um there's no motivation for them to

3570
02:01:22,629 --> 02:01:20,800
disclose anything at this point

3571
02:01:23,830 --> 02:01:22,639
yeah i don't think that they'll ever do

3572
02:01:25,669 --> 02:01:23,840
it unless they're forced

3573
02:01:27,350 --> 02:01:25,679
their hand is for their head has to be

3574
02:01:29,270 --> 02:01:27,360
forced by nothing

3575
02:01:30,470 --> 02:01:29,280
and absolutely another great question is

3576
02:01:32,550 --> 02:01:30,480
what individual

3577
02:01:34,870 --> 02:01:32,560
uh story is the most interesting to you

3578
02:01:38,550 --> 02:01:34,880
kevin and why

3579
02:01:42,550 --> 02:01:38,560
oh i think he means like exo

3580
02:01:43,750 --> 02:01:42,560
ufo story well roswell is extremely

3581
02:01:46,310 --> 02:01:43,760
interesting because of

3582
02:01:48,790 --> 02:01:46,320
of all the people involved i think the

3583
02:01:50,470 --> 02:01:48,800
level and ufo sightings are very very

3584
02:01:51,830 --> 02:01:50,480
important because you had so many people

3585
02:01:52,870 --> 02:01:51,840
involved and you've got the ufo

3586
02:01:54,709 --> 02:01:52,880
interacting with the environment

3587
02:01:58,709 --> 02:01:54,719
installing the car engines

3588
02:02:01,109 --> 02:01:58,719
and putting out the headlights and

3589
02:02:02,629 --> 02:02:01,119
there is a an awful lot of information

3590
02:02:03,030 --> 02:02:02,639
about that that i've uncovered in the

3591
02:02:05,350 --> 02:02:03,040
last

3592
02:02:07,030 --> 02:02:05,360
couple of years that hasn't come out yet

3593
02:02:09,750 --> 02:02:07,040
including what the

3594
02:02:10,310 --> 02:02:09,760
sheriff in level land how deep he was

3595
02:02:12,310 --> 02:02:10,320
involved

3596
02:02:14,470 --> 02:02:12,320
in some of the things that were going on

3597
02:02:15,270 --> 02:02:14,480
but i think that's a very important case

3598
02:02:17,589 --> 02:02:15,280
because

3599
02:02:19,669 --> 02:02:17,599
you have the multiple witnesses you have

3600
02:02:21,189 --> 02:02:19,679
the ufo interacting with the environment

3601
02:02:23,030 --> 02:02:21,199
and you can see the nonsensical

3602
02:02:24,870 --> 02:02:23,040
investigation conducted by the air force

3603
02:02:27,430 --> 02:02:24,880
saying well it was ball lightning

3604
02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:27,440
ball lightning is very small and very

3605
02:02:31,270 --> 02:02:29,520
short-lived and you don't get

3606
02:02:33,750 --> 02:02:31,280
massive displays of them all over an

3607
02:02:35,589 --> 02:02:33,760
area over a period of two hours

3608
02:02:36,870 --> 02:02:35,599
so the ball lightning explanation simply

3609
02:02:40,629 --> 02:02:36,880
doesn't work

3610
02:02:43,669 --> 02:02:40,639
explanation is swamp gas yeah

3611
02:02:46,790 --> 02:02:43,679
and we talk about swamp gas in in

3612
02:02:48,790 --> 02:02:46,800
project blue book exposed

3613
02:02:49,910 --> 02:02:48,800
yeah and and could you talk for just a

3614
02:02:51,270 --> 02:02:49,920
moment uh since

3615
02:02:53,510 --> 02:02:51,280
we're on the subject of a blue book

3616
02:02:56,310 --> 02:02:53,520
about the second blue book

3617
02:02:57,589 --> 02:02:56,320
the the one you know there's the public

3618
02:02:59,669 --> 02:02:57,599
blue book and then

3619
02:03:01,990 --> 02:02:59,679
didn't they have a separate program for

3620
02:03:04,790 --> 02:03:02,000
any of the cases which might

3621
02:03:06,149 --> 02:03:04,800
um affect national security that was not

3622
02:03:06,629 --> 02:03:06,159
publicly at all we kind of discussed

3623
02:03:08,310 --> 02:03:06,639
that the

3624
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:08,320
national security implications come into

3625
02:03:11,430 --> 02:03:11,040
play but general bolander said in 1969

3626
02:03:15,030 --> 02:03:11,440
that

3627
02:03:16,709 --> 02:03:15,040
national security or impacted national

3628
02:03:17,910 --> 02:03:16,719
security were not part of the blue book

3629
02:03:19,270 --> 02:03:17,920
system

3630
02:03:20,950 --> 02:03:19,280
so we know there was a secondary

3631
02:03:22,629 --> 02:03:20,960
investigation going on we later

3632
02:03:23,910 --> 02:03:22,639
discovered there was another one called

3633
02:03:28,310 --> 02:03:23,920
moon dust

3634
02:03:29,910 --> 02:03:28,320
and moon was a a project to recover

3635
02:03:30,870 --> 02:03:29,920
returning space debris a foreign

3636
02:03:33,189 --> 02:03:30,880
manufacturer

3637
02:03:34,790 --> 02:03:33,199
or unknown origin and we wanted to get

3638
02:03:36,070 --> 02:03:34,800
our hands on the russian stuff if we

3639
02:03:37,510 --> 02:03:36,080
could just to see what they yeah but

3640
02:03:39,109 --> 02:03:37,520
unknown origin also suggests

3641
02:03:39,990 --> 02:03:39,119
extraterrestrial we know there was a ufo

3642
02:03:42,709 --> 02:03:40,000
component

3643
02:03:44,149 --> 02:03:42,719
because when the state department

3644
02:03:46,470 --> 02:03:44,159
inadvertently released a bunch of

3645
02:03:49,270 --> 02:03:46,480
documents to i think robert todd

3646
02:03:50,790 --> 02:03:49,280
um moondust was moondust was mentioned

3647
02:03:52,390 --> 02:03:50,800
in there and there was ufo component to

3648
02:03:54,790 --> 02:03:52,400
it i found four cases in the project

3649
02:03:56,470 --> 02:03:54,800
blue book files labeled moondust

3650
02:03:58,709 --> 02:03:56,480
yeah that's interesting and you've got

3651
02:03:59,990 --> 02:03:58,719
the documents and another excellent

3652
02:04:02,149 --> 02:04:00,000
another excellent question

3653
02:04:04,229 --> 02:04:02,159
asked kevin about jacobson's book annie

3654
02:04:07,189 --> 02:04:04,239
jacobson has this book about

3655
02:04:08,390 --> 02:04:07,199
area 51 and the last chapter is got some

3656
02:04:12,550 --> 02:04:08,400
crazy story

3657
02:04:16,069 --> 02:04:12,560
about uh you know

3658
02:04:17,910 --> 02:04:16,079
mengele and and stalin got together

3659
02:04:19,350 --> 02:04:17,920
and somehow manufactured these fake

3660
02:04:21,430 --> 02:04:19,360
alien bodies in this

3661
02:04:23,109 --> 02:04:21,440
strange craft to fly it over the united

3662
02:04:24,629 --> 02:04:23,119
states and panic us

3663
02:04:27,030 --> 02:04:24,639
do you think there's any credibility to

3664
02:04:29,910 --> 02:04:27,040
her claims no

3665
02:04:30,390 --> 02:04:29,920
there you go quick answer yeah that's

3666
02:04:32,310 --> 02:04:30,400
the thing

3667
02:04:33,510 --> 02:04:32,320
present some documentation present some

3668
02:04:35,270 --> 02:04:33,520
proof you're going to claim to be a

3669
02:04:37,990 --> 02:04:35,280
military officer present us with some

3670
02:04:42,069 --> 02:04:38,000
actual documentation that we can verify

3671
02:04:44,390 --> 02:04:42,079
um and it goes back to to people like um

3672
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:44,400
um willingham you know he presented the

3673
02:04:48,550 --> 02:04:46,560
documentation but we couldn't verify it

3674
02:04:49,910 --> 02:04:48,560
when we went to the sources they said no

3675
02:04:52,550 --> 02:04:49,920
this stuff is not real

3676
02:04:54,950 --> 02:04:52,560
so i mean that that's the point if you

3677
02:04:57,669 --> 02:04:54,960
want to check my background

3678
02:04:59,750 --> 02:04:57,679
send the documentation to the st louis

3679
02:05:01,270 --> 02:04:59,760
and ask him for my military records

3680
02:05:03,350 --> 02:05:01,280
ask him for the army ones because if you

3681
02:05:05,350 --> 02:05:03,360
get the air force ones i think it's only

3682
02:05:06,390 --> 02:05:05,360
got me as a first lieutenant on there

3683
02:05:08,709 --> 02:05:06,400
and the

3684
02:05:10,069 --> 02:05:08,719
you need to get the army army rec army

3685
02:05:13,189 --> 02:05:10,079
records

3686
02:05:15,350 --> 02:05:13,199
to uh to pick up some of that stuff yeah

3687
02:05:16,709 --> 02:05:15,360
well listen this has been one of my

3688
02:05:18,950 --> 02:05:16,719
favorite shows so far

3689
02:05:20,229 --> 02:05:18,960
it's just been fascinating and a dream

3690
02:05:22,069 --> 02:05:20,239
come true i still

3691
02:05:23,589 --> 02:05:22,079
am thinking about sitting in my living

3692
02:05:26,790 --> 02:05:23,599
room with my father

3693
02:05:29,030 --> 02:05:26,800
who uh liked sort of uh

3694
02:05:30,390 --> 02:05:29,040
aviation and and hearing about roswell

3695
02:05:32,790 --> 02:05:30,400
for the first time with you on

3696
02:05:33,990 --> 02:05:32,800
unsolved mysteries and now you're here

3697
02:05:36,470 --> 02:05:34,000
uh in

3698
02:05:37,189 --> 02:05:36,480
my show which is amazing to me i want to

3699
02:05:38,950 --> 02:05:37,199
thank you

3700
02:05:40,709 --> 02:05:38,960
so here's what i'm going to do with uh

3701
02:05:42,709 --> 02:05:40,719
kevin i'm going to play us out

3702
02:05:43,750 --> 02:05:42,719
if you just want to stand by for a

3703
02:05:45,669 --> 02:05:43,760
moment uh

3704
02:05:47,750 --> 02:05:45,679
i would appreciate that okay while i

3705
02:05:49,430 --> 02:05:47,760
play with a bumper

3706
02:05:51,109 --> 02:05:49,440
so i want to i want to thank each and

3707
02:05:51,910 --> 02:05:51,119
every one of you for joining us this has

3708
02:05:53,669 --> 02:05:51,920
been

3709
02:05:55,750 --> 02:05:53,679
just i could talk to you for five more

3710
02:05:57,669 --> 02:05:55,760
hours i don't want to keep you that long

3711
02:05:59,430 --> 02:05:57,679
maybe we can have you come back that

3712
02:06:04,870 --> 02:05:59,440
would be awesome

3713
02:06:06,470 --> 02:06:04,880
won't mention that guy

3714
02:06:07,910 --> 02:06:06,480
or maybe you could come back with them i

3715
02:06:09,990 --> 02:06:07,920
don't know we'll see

3716
02:06:11,430 --> 02:06:10,000
all right friends uh i want to thank

3717
02:06:13,589 --> 02:06:11,440
each and every one of you for joining us

3718
02:06:14,709 --> 02:06:13,599
for our very special event revisiting

3719
02:06:18,229 --> 02:06:14,719
roswell with

3720
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:18,239
uh dr kevin randall

3721
02:06:45,270 --> 02:06:42,830
[Music]

3722
02:07:14,160 --> 02:06:45,280
so

3723
02:07:53,330 --> 02:07:21,730
[Music]